The Plumbing and Water flow Workshop

[Scooterman]

...and to add to that last statement, if you came through at 3/4" then tee off with two more loc lines, you would get reduced pressure but more available be directional flow if that makes sense.

 

[snowstar]

Mike - I also have a an AGA 180 - it's the "mega overflow" version not the overflow in the corners. I have 4 - 1" holes drilled in the back about 6 inches below the tank bracing/trim. They are fairly evenly spaced accross the back. For the flow I want to be able to have my cake and eat it too.... in other words, I want a tank that is as high energy flow as possible to support a variety of sps while maintaing a 4-6" sand bed. My return pump is only a LG 4mdqx, but I really do not want a huge turn over through the sump. I currently have a hammerhead fed by two of the drains in the back wall of the tank. The pump is sitting on a shelf situated between the two drains and only about a foot below them. The return is 1.5" pvc up to the top of the tank bracing/trim where is is reduced to 1" PVC for a manifold that runs the perimeter of the tank. Curently, I have plumbed into the manifold 22 T's but only 12 are open for business with 1/2" loc-line the others are plugged. I intend to in the near future plumb a second hammerhead into the manifold using the other two drains in the back wall. My questions are:

1 - should I break the manifold in half when I add the second pump - or should I just plumb both pumps into one manifold?

2 - flow for the sand bed. can I create a flow situation that is adequate to maintain the sand bed and if so how would I go about it? I have considered using a sequence dart to run a spray bar that would cover the back center section of the tank positioned about 1 -1 1/2" above the sand bed.

Thanks for all of the ideas and reccomendations!

 

[fleetbox]

I would go with such big holes through the tank wall. If you are going to reduce from 1 1/4 down to 3/4 locline anyway you might as well do that on the outside of the tank,

Good idea Mike, Would a 3000 GPH be enough to power the closed loop? At what point am I going to get too much back pressure for the 3/4"?


...and to add to that last statement, if you came through at 3/4" then tee off with two more loc lines, you would get reduced pressure but more available be directional flow if that makes sense.

makes perfect sense scooty. I read earlier that a lower flow with more coverage area would be better than a high flow in a limmited area. I want to try and keep everything moving as much as possible. Tx

Any ideas about spray bars? Do they bennifit a tank very much or help reduce mantainance?

 

[Wayupnorth]

Thanks Mike. Been kind of absent for the last couple of days as I had to make a trip to the Northwest Territories for a couple of meetings. Anyway I sent a note off to Paul at Ocean Motions to see if he could put together the whole plumbing package for me based on your design so we are trying to hook up. If he can't do it I will shop when I am in Calgary and Edmonton next week.
You have definately not heard the last of me - in fact you may hear me from there when I start to try and put all this together and drill the tank myself - and that will be without the benefit of a phone line.
Ruth

 

[Scooterman]

Personally I think spray bars have a place, but I just can't find one lol, to design a spray bar keep these thoughts, I may be wrong but here goes. Lets take a bar that is drilled evenly throughout the length of the bar, by the time you reach the end I would have to assume several things, at that point overall pressure will be reduced drastically (taking it you making a rather long bar) & the holes closest to the inlet from the pump will have better pressure & flow than at the end. So with that in mind consider the I.D. of the pipe & how many holes you have to drill to meet that same I.D. at that point you will have no restrictions in the bar and your pump would be pumping like it was just left open, so to prevent this you can start off with smaller holes on the inlet and taper your way down the pipe, considering the diameter of each hole into the equation. If for example you have a 1" outlet from your pump, you will make 16 1/16" holes and you will have just about the same I.D. If you look at it that way your very limited or you will need a better pump to pipe I.D. ratio to really get the performance desired in a spray bar & I doubt you will ever achieve an even flow across the entire length. Just something to think about, make it and try it to see just how well it will work for you before installing it.

 

[reedman]

I'd have to go with scooter on the spraybar. They can work...you need a really big pump to power them to make them anywhere near useful. My personal preference is to use outlets that push flow into the area that you would cover with a spaybar. An additional benefit to this technique is that you can reconfigure without ripping the whole thing out.

 

[mojoreef]

Snowstar I am having a hard time visualizing it can you put up some pics?? or maybe a sketch??

flow for the sand bed. can I create a flow situation that is adequate to maintain the sand bed and if so how would I go about it? I have considered using a sequence dart to run a spray bar that would cover the back center section of the tank positioned about 1 -1 1/2" above the sand bed.

Well you cant create a flow situation to take care of the dsb. A dsb using the manual movement of critters to diffuse detritus down through the bed. It is to finely grained and to well packed to be diffused by water flow. But in say that you can always do your best to keep the detritus in suspension so that it doesnt make it to the bed.
To be honest if it were me I would concede to what ever lands on the bed and then just get critters to do the diffusing. then I would send my time and money on trying to keep the corals and rocks free of detritus build up.
Shoot me that pic and we can do some work on it.


MIke

 

[mojoreef]

Fleetbox

Good idea Mike, Would a 3000 GPH be enough to power the closed loop? At what point am I going to get too much back pressure for the 3/4"?

I would say it should be ok. I would go with at least four 3/4 holes, 5 if you can that should eliminate any worries. From thier you can still Y them, but make sure you check them for pressure, you want to have some flow coming out or they wont help you. What do you have on the bottom of this tank. Sand? BB? CC? ???


Mike

 

[fleetbox]

Mike, I am using aprox 1" of fine sand for substrate. I am using 4" for my sump. I am considering using some algae in there as well. I have not purchased the pump yet so if you think I should go bigger this would be the time to tell me. Also, when drilling the holes in the tank where would I want to concentrate. ie middle upper lower? or 2 mid 2 low? If I am running 3K plus gph I should drill two holes for the intake to reuce the chance that something would get sucked into it. Am I on the right track here?

I do not plan on having high numbers of sps, maybe 2 - 3 and will not add for at least a year. It has taken me 8 weeks and tank has not cycled. I keep changing things around! LOL Your advise is great keep it coming!

 

[mojoreef]

I would go mid level Fleetbox, then just direct them slightly higher and lower. You sand will dictate how much you can direct downwards. 2 holes for input is always a better option.

As your tank devlopes and mature with corals and such you are always going to end up getting adjusted, so down the line you can add or delete Y sections to get more coverage, Sooo so far so good!!

Mike

 

[scottw]

Mike you may want to look into some of these. THEY ROCK!

Ok going to borrow some pics from a friend of them working.
Std Bulkhead

Jet-Bulkhead

 

[mojoreef]

Whats the concept Scott??


Mike

 

[scottw]

A lot more flow at the same cost as a regular bulkhead. I love them, and you can adjust where you want the flow to go. The nozzle moves around for you

 

[Scooterman]

Ahh sorta like the lock-line ball inside the BH, no nozzel.
Guess it depends if you need more pressure or not huh?

 

[scottw]

Ahh sorta like the lock-line ball inside the BH, no nozzel.
Guess it depends if you need more pressure or not huh?

you got it

 

[snowstar]

I'll have to do a sketch of the spray bar.... but here is the pump side of the manifold:

I apologize up front for the quality of the manifold pic. You can't see the nozzels on the front, but the nozzels on the front are simply under the rim and there are 5 of them evenly spaced. There are also 3 nozzels along the sides of the tank - again just under the trim. So the manifold question is when I add the second Hammerhead do I just put both pums on the same amnifold or do I break the manifold in half and have 2 seperate manifolds that one shaped like a c and the other like a reversed c? Does that sort of help? I afraid my sketches will be worse than the pictures!

The only reason I am contemplating the spray bar just above the sand bed along the back is to push the detritus and not have any stagnant areas. Not to mention Anthony always says that flow is one of the reasons so many reef keepers have so many problems with a sand bed. I understand the need for the sand bed critters - I'm not sure I have enough - not sure there are ever really enough, but the comment from Anthony about flow has me worried that I just do not have enough flow partcularly just above the sand bed....

'course if you have any suggestions about different ways to achieve the flow I need (shooting for about 45 -50x turn over not counting the 5x from the sump) please toss them out! The only thing I would say is that with the 4 1" holes in the back of the tank I'm a little leary of drilling any more since it's glass....

thanks again.....

 

[jlehigh]

Mike you may want to look into some of these. THEY ROCK!

When I was planning/plumbing my tank I called several spa part vendors, visited shops, and called around but could never find the type of bulkhead you show there..

What is the diameter of the inlet?

 

[scottw]

When I was planning/plumbing my tank I called several spa part vendors, visited shops, and called around but could never find the type of bulkhead you show there..

What is the diameter of the inlet?

I went with 1" they also have 1.5".

 

[jlehigh]

ouch 90 bucks per... Wow that's steep.

 

[mattseattle]

where did you see them for 90.00? I found this price on Custom Aquatic. They are only Schedule 40 though.

here is what i found:


PF-HR10-3200BLK

Price $4.69​

1 inch Tank Jet Assembly (BLACK). with eyeball assembly. Socket connection.…..