The Plumbing and Water flow Workshop

[jlehigh]

Definately two different products. I think you have the right one but I am curious what the difference is.

PF-HWSF10100T Price $89.99
1 inch threaded Self-Aligning Bulkhead fitting. This is a special order item wi...more

 

[mattseattle]

here is a picture of the Self Aligning Bulkhead used in an application...

Applications: Hayward Self-Aligning Bulkhead Fitting allow straight piping connections to be made to the tops of domed tanks or other curved surfaces. A swivel ball connection corrects for the curved surface, not other fittings or piping is required.

 

[jlehigh]

Wow, that is pretty cool Learn something new every day

 

[mattseattle]

yeah, guess you could use it in a half circle tank or some other 'not so' normal rectangle tank. I think it would probably be cheaper to just use spa-flex pvc.

 

[Skipper J]

Snowstar!Nice set up you've got threre!How thick is the glass that you are using in your tank and what is the dimension of your 180AGA.Can you please tell me about the bracing you use.This would help me a lot in my tank construction,Thanks!

Joey

 

[mojoreef]

Snowstar

The only reason I am contemplating the spray bar just above the sand bed along the back is to push the detritus and not have any stagnant areas. Not to mention Anthony always says that flow is one of the reasons so many reef keepers have so many problems with a sand bed.

Yes a dsb (according to the experts) is able to handle about 3 to 4 small fish per hundred gallon tank with a 6 inch dsb. So the more detiruts you can keep in the water collum and away from the bed the better.
What is the size of the piping on the manifold you have in place right now??



MIke

 

[snowstar]

The current incarnation of the manifold is 1.5" from the sequence to the top of the tank. Then, it reduces to 1" for the perimter of the tank with the T pieces of the manifold reducing to a mix of 1/2 and 3/4 loc-line. The manifold is top flow only, I guess and the only flow that reaches the midportions and bottom of the tank is whatever turbulent flow is created by the manifold as the water crashes around from the nozzels. In other words I do not have any T's that extend any length down into the tank. So that is why I was considering the spray bar --- If I need to do that, I was planning on getting a sequence dart so again it would be 1.5" to the top of the tank reduced to 1" going over the edge and down to the sand bed, once I got to the sand bed or about 1" above it, I was going to reduce to 3/4 and drill several varying sized holes along the sray bar. Also the current manifold is only one hammerhead - I am going to be adding a second - since I already have the holes drilled....

hope this makes sense...
thanks much!

 

[mojoreef]

Are the hammer heads Pressurized?? anyone?? or are they like the ampmasters??


Mike

 

[snowstar]

Sequence has said that they perform better when under pressure, but they do not say that on their documentation. I just did some testing of the manifold.... and it sucks... I thought the flow felt pretty good, I am loseing soooo much flow from this pump. I've got to find a better way other than the manifold to distribute the flow. It looks like I am only getting 120 gph out of the 1/2" nozzels and only about 200gph from the 3/4" nozzels. I think the reccomended flow from the nozzles for an sps tank is between 300 and 500 gph.... so maybe i want to scrap the manifold, or maybe there is a better way to do it, but now what?

 

[snowstar]

Hmmm maybe I should think a bit more... when I add the second pump if I "cut the manifold in half" then I'm halfing the linear ft so theoretically I might would get close to 400 gph from 8 nozzels per manifold as oppsosed to 120 from 15. That would put it in the right range....and have 16 nozzels distributing the flow. I'm still not sure I like the idea of using 2 5800 gph pumps to get about 6400 gph circulated through the tank....

 

[mojoreef]

The reason for the question was that in most pumps (unless pressure rated) if you go from 1 1/2 inch to 1 inch you loose 40% of your flow right away. Snowstar I am thinking we are close. What I thought we could do would be to take out the manifold portion that is 1 inch. From thier we can construct two manifolds that cover both the top and the bottom of the tank, but insteed of going all the way round we will cover just the back and sides and then bounce flow off the front glass, whatcha think?? as another alturnative, if you havent bought the new pump yet you could go with a motorized ballvalve.
Pros: you effectively double the flow going into the tank, you can add a nice randomizing flow by having the valve switch back and forth, less cost on electrical.
Cons: about 400 with a timer


Mike

 

[snowstar]

That sounds very good Mike ---- the 400 for the motorized ball valve is doable - the cost of the spray bar pump would offset it some what - but now my question is --- I am still needing to buy two pumps. Are you saying not buy the pump to drive a spray bar and still buy the second hammerhead? or are you saying that I should only use the one hammerhead to generate all the flow? And since I am only going accross the back and sides of the tank i can increase the size of the pluming to 1.5" -greatly reducing the head on the pump.

Also, when I create two manifolds, am I creating one at the top and one at the middle of the tank? Sorry i'm so dense - I'm just trying to get this right. I've always kept lps/softies so this drive for huge flow and a "nutrient poor" tank is new territory for me.

thanks -

 

[mojoreef]

Ok snowstar the concept here now is that you are going to hook up just ONE pump. the motorized ball valve is a 3 way. so one input and two outputs. The timer would have one side open and the other closed. So you would get all the flow from the pump out of one side of the valve, then it would close that side and open up the other, so again all the flow from the pump over to the other side. It would give you the feel of having two pumps on (one either side) but at different times.

So to answer your question, nope just one pump. and we will create a new manifold and plumbing to handle it.

Mike


MIke

 

[snowstar]

cool I'm more than game --- 'cause that would completely off set the cost of the MBV.... describe on ohh mentor Mike! Seriously, I can have the MBV ordered an in - in the next two weeks. Would it be fesable to go ahead and re-do the manifold and when the MBV comes in I can just cut the PVC and insert the MBV? I think just by increasing the size of the PVC even if the manifold has more openings than the current one will possibly increase the flow i'm getting - or worst case the flow will be the same - until the MBV is installed. Now I'm trying to picture the manifold - using a 3 way - valve. So one "leg" of the valve will go to the top back and sides .... now where will the other two go?

Oh and one other goofy question - are you going to bring your home tank back on-line so we can gaze in awe? Again seriously ---- I remember showing that tank to my partner a few years (2 atleast) and saying that is where I want to go! I love that tank....

 

[mojoreef]

Snowstar I have a site for the tank, its www.mojoreef.info anyway I am putting a drawing together right now for yours so give me a little bit .


Mike

 

[mojoreef]

Ok snowstar questions. Where are the inputs for the closed loop pump coming from??


Mike

 

[snowstar]

no problem --- I don't mean to seem antsy --- I'm just a little excited that I am going to have a solution to this situation soon. And I'm almost always at my computer ---- even while I'm staring at my tanks, the laptop is there ---- confessional sins of a sys admin I guess.

 

[snowstar]

There are 4 1" drilled holes evenly spaced on the back glass - but they are only 3 inches down from the top trim/bracing that are feeding the hammer head pumps.... i hope this is what you are asking....

 

[mojoreef]

Ok so lets leave the inputs as is.

Here is a pic of the back of the tank, pretty basic. From your pump go right into a 1 1/2 union (i didnt draw that in) then from thier into a normal 1 1/2 ball valve, then directly into the 3 way motorized ball valve. From the MBV you come out with 2 elbows, then use spa flex or flexable 1 1/2 pvc to bring the water up to the manifolds that will be hard pipe.

i will do the manifold next


Mike

 

[mojoreef]

Ok so now the manifold. Its going to be made up of 1 1/2 hard pvc, using tee's and piping. What I am figuring is that we are going to have 5 times 3/4 inch outputs per side of the MBV. From the diagram you an see that I have 2 of the 5 outputs going down to about 1 foot above the bottom of the tank, from that point you would attach a locline male adapter and then a Y. I will show another drawing that has the flow direction. Then their are 2 outputs that stay high and then another in the corner that drops down to the same height as the first one and has the same plumbing attached. Finally and not shown on the drawing is a output that comes from the side. We want that one to be a short one to and about 6 inches from the front face of the glass.

Mike