To Skim or not to Skim

[The Shark]

That is the question....

I had someone tell me that they do not use skimmers on any reef tanks, as it removes useful chemicals present in the water and can harm coral. (Which I responded "That is why you make water changes...to replenish what is removed)
They recommended using caulpera along with a carbon bag in my sump instead. (BTW...How long does everyone use carbon? 24 hours a day, seven days a week, on and off monthly etc?)

Opinions on this topic?

 

[Krish]

I use carbon 24/7 and change it weekly. As for skimming, I wouldn't be caught without a skimmer. Some people go without them, but I prefer not to. A lot of people as well use a skimmer along with a macro algae in a fuge, but chaeto is usually the most popular algae to use for nutrient export. Caulerpa has a tendency to go "sexual" and can cause issues in a tank so a lot of people steer clear of it and just rely on chaeto (eventhough you have people that are die hard caulerpa users). It's all a matter of personal opinion though. Any which way you look at it, people have been successful with keeping stable tanks with many different methods. It's all up to what works for you and for me...Well, I think I will always run a skimmer

 

[MikeS]

I would never even try to keep a marine tank without a skimmer...

MikeS

 

[gman0526]

FWIW I'm with Mike and Krish on this, there's no logical reason as far as I can see to not try and remove as much waste as possible from my tank. IMO thre's no amount of water changes that can compare to removing your tank's waste 24/7, this is unless you're wanting to do 100% water change every day. This of course is my opinion, experience and reasoning from a couple of years of keeping SW tanks.

Mike, how've you been? Long time don't chat with ya bud. Don't be a stranger.

 

[NaH2O]

Some folks do not use skimmers, and rely on biological methods to export nutrients. I will always use a skimmer, as I find it extremely helpful in removing organics from the water, which are plentiful.

With regards to Caulerpa. That is one macroalgae I wouldn't recommend using. Chaetomorpha would be a much better choice. Caulerpa not only has issues with going sexual, but also with toxicity. I have seen first hand what an SPS coral looks like when caulerpa grows next to it. It isn't pretty. I took over some corals from someone, and one large colony had caulerpa growing around the base. Anywhere there was caulerpa, there was no tissue on the coral. I know which came first....it was the caulerpa, and the tissue recession was second. Here is a deeper thread on: Caulerpa Toxicity in Perspective. Mojoreef provides some good information on the subject.

Here is a past poll on: Carbon Use. It was a two part poll...each person was asked to vote for how they run carbon, and how often they use it.

 

[Skimmy]

well, do i even have to say what i think about skimming??...lol

imo, the skimmer is singularly the most important aspect of filtration on a reef aquarium. alot of people now with 100+ systems even use 2 skimmers! nothing pulls more waste and goo out quicker, than a skimmer.
as for the issue of depleating plankton, zooplankton, and benificial chemicals, all i can say is...ADD THEM!
there are plenty of products out now that will approximate those foods and nutrients in your reef.
i will say that alot of methodology decisions depend on what creatures you plan on keeping, some corals and fish will do great in an unskimmed system, others will turn brown and slowly fade away. so alot of it depends on what you are doing..
also, i personally like to incorporate the 2 methods and run skimmers and refugiums at the same time.
you cant be a one trick pony in this game...lol

as well, i run carbon all the time and change it out every few days to every week depending on tank conditions.

also, i feel it is unfair not to mention high water flow in the tank, and using ro/di purified water, they are also paramount the the health of the system. just my 2 cents....

 

[kevinpo]

You can certainly be very successful with a reef tank without using a skimmer or refugium (I will post a picture of a 125gal SPS tank I have at the store that has been running for 15 months). The down side of not using a skimmer is mostly cost, RO/DI water and time. We change about 50% of the water a month (18 gallons a week). Normally we change 20%/month when we use a skimmer. Even with the high cost of a good skimmer you will soon spend that amount in time, RO/DI, and salt. I would not change that much water using tap water because in most of the US the ground water has too many minerals in it.

We run carbon (on tanks that we change water once a month) for the last 10 days of the month before the water change.

Caulerpa not only has issues with going sexual, but also with toxicity.

It is also very hard to control if/when it migrates to your main tank.

We have many large skimmers running in combination with chaetomorpha macro algae that exhibit about the same coral growth etc. as the skimmer free tank.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[DonW]

I think using chaeto and othe macros is one of the older methods of trying to keep a reef. There are still a few die hards left that dont skim, but I cant think of one that has any long term success without a skimmer. I think if the average tank could do what the macro preachers claim there would be no need for people to spend the kind of money we do on skimmers. The proof is in the tank, no matter how much techno babble antiskimmer folks throw out there.

Don

 

[gman0526]

Just to show that there's not one sigle way to run a skimmer and to just shove it in my face there's this tank that the owner claims to have been skimmer-less for over a year :shock:

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/index.html

 

[olsaltybastard]

Just to show that there's not one sigle way to run a skimmer and to just shove it in my face there's this tank that the owner claims to have been skimmer-less for over a year :shock:

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/index.html

That person really knows how to take pictures!! I freely admit that my skimmer is a crutch as I learn to walk through the hobby of reefkeeping.

 

[Skimmy]

k, notice how the guy runs tunze wavebox, has ATI t5 lighting, uses the grotech tec III to dose calcium chloride and alk buffer, on top of doing the balling method, has a fuge, does weekly water changes, plus uses tropic marin or meersalz pro, doses iron for the macroalgae,.... and then calls it the simple reef....lol
granted it is beautiful, and it can be done, but i certainly am far too lazy to want to do all those things in place of skimmers and reactors:lol:

 

[marinelife]

My tank was skimmerless the first 4 years, then I added a skimmer, removed it a 1 and a half later because tank went to crap, the tank is just now 3 months later with no skimmer getting back to looking good. All tanks run differently and everyone just needs to learn what your tank needs.

 

[mcvicker]

Well I sort of run skimmerless. My tank is 8 months old (58 gallon). I put in a refugium about 4 months ago and layed out my sump wrong. So most of the organics fall out in the refugium rather than getting pulled out with the skimmer. My skimmer production is roughly a fifth what it was when I started with a heavier bio load now. I change about 15% of the water every two weeks. The tank is running better with the refugium and cheato. I think this is mostly due to increased flow and better control of water chemistry. I think about taking out the skimmer, but if nothing else it is removing some wast and aerating the water. I am sort of nervous about some sort of crash, but everything keeps checking out okay (except calcium and alkalinity, trying to keep up with kalkwasser and supplements DIY reactor on the way...). I think there are many ways to set up a tank the main fact is you need to export waste whether by skimming, cheato, or water changes. With all that being said I would recommend using a skimmer just due to the fact that 9 out of 10 reefers can't be wrong.
-chris

 

[burning2nd]

thats a big negative. you wanna skimmer 24/7

 

[Dewey115]

A skimmer will pull out the vast majority of very small organic particles from the water, both bad (fish waste, old food, bits of a dead fish, etc...) and good (bits of new food, planktons in general). With less organics in the water to break down (ammonia > nitrite > nitrate) the water is cleaner for longer. In addition to removing the bad organics, the skimmer will remove most of the small pieces of food (and dissolved nutrients) that many corals and many more small random animals (worms, pods, feather dusters, etc...) eat for food. And yes it is true that you can add phyto/zoo plankton to your tank, but you skim the vast majority of that food back out within 15 mins or so. If you have a fish that was bothering a coral right before (or during) feeding and the coral closed up, it could very well miss all the food before reopening. Also many people feed the "tank" or their corals only every few days, if much of this food is skimmed out within 20 mins thats not much time for things to eat...

There are many different ways to "clean" the water in your tank and a skimmer is by far the quickest and most efficient as far as organics in the water, if you have few or no corals then there is very little reason not to use a skimmer. People with more hard corals tend to really want skimmers for the cleaner water (though I have many hard corals doing great in skimmer-less setups), and most people with soft corals seem to notice better growth without skimmers (or keeping them off at times). In the end it is really up to you if you use a skimmer and how much you use it. Just know that there are many viable alternatives, benefits, and disadvantages to pretty much every choice you can make... so learn as much as you can about something and make a choice based off of that, not what someone else told you to do.

Rick

 

[bripen]

If using a skimmer with a refugium setup, should the skimmer be inline prior to the refugium? I use a slightly undersized skimmer on my system--an Aqua C Urchin--along with a large refugium.

 

[NaH2O]

IMO, the skimmer should be the first thing the water goes to when entering the sump, in order to get the raw water. Then the refugium can get the rest. Hope this makes sense.

 

[staticx]

blah blah blah
when you feed your corals turn your skimmer off, when feeeding picky corals cut a 2 liter bottle in half and place it over the coral then feed it no pesky fish will get in the way. the ocean has a natural skimmer called waves. The waves cause micro bubbles witch in turn produce a skim. if people are not using skimmers, its just because they are old school. People say they do not use skimmer but theyt have to do massive water changes.

 

[staticx]

sorry I posted this is the wrong thread pay no attention to my previouse ramble

 

[staticx]

blah blah blah
when you feed your corals turn your skimmer off, when feeeding picky corals cut a 2 liter bottle in half and place it over the coral then feed it no pesky fish will get in the way. the ocean has a natural skimmer called waves. The waves cause micro bubbles witch in turn produce a skim. if people are not using skimmers, its just because they are old school. People say they do not use skimmer but theyt have to do massive water changes. I say rock on with a big skimmer