Unsuccessful for three years...

[spank]

Nothing I put into my tank does as well as I would like. Chalices grow for a while then stop and recede. Acans were growing fine and now all are receding. A large frogspawn with 20 heads has recently ceased expanding to full size. SPS is a complete waste of time. They grow for a while with poor colors and then just enter stasis and slowly perish. I have one zoanthid colony that is spreading but every other colony I have introduced has disappeared over time. Derasa and hippopus clams do very well. I have mixed results from Crocea. Maxima’s don’t do well. For a year I watched one rock get covered with 50 or so 3 inch purple mushrooms. Recently they have started popping off and floating around the tank. Maybe 20 or so left attached. I have put a lot of work into this and am not satisfied. I want the flourishing reef that I know is possible. I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong. Any help is appreciated.

System Description:
100 gallon show tank
2 inches aragonite
100 lbs live rock
45 gallon sump with chaeto and Caulerpa
Vertex in-100 skimmer
2 x 250 watt 14k Metal halide lighting suspended 1.5 feet above water surface (on for 8 hours per day)
500 gph running through sump
4 korallias in main tank
Grounding probe
Reef Crystals

Dosing:
seachem products (reef builder, reef buffer, reef advantage calcium, reef plus)

Inhabitants:
Acans
chalices
Frogspawn
Mushrooms
ricordia
Zooanthids
Dendros
Clams
Sps
various fish


Water Parameters:
9dkh
440 calcium
8.1 PH
Mag 1150
76 F
1.026 sp gr
Nitrates 5ppm

Maintaining constant water parameters has been a challenge. For several months it was requiring huge doses to keep the numbers up. A month ago I found I was using a bad alk test kit. Alk was at 15 dkh. Stopped dosing and over a week it dropped within the correct range. No improvement in the corals. In fact recession has gotten worse in the acans, chalices, and frogspawn.

What is going on?
Aleopathy?
Incorrect lighting?
Fluctuating water parameters (definitely)
Bad salt?
Too much light?

Current plan it to switch salt brands and focus on parameters.

 

[jrgilles]

Lights seem a bit far from the tank? On my system, that seems to be doing well, I have 2 by 250W 14k MH bulbs maybe 6 inches from the water surface (on maybe 8-9 hours/day) as well as 4 by 54 W compact fluorsecent bulbs (on maybe 14H per day). Mg looks slightly low, but that shouldn't be causing any issues. Could have a bit more flow, but doesn't look like it should be causing problems (maybe I am just a junkie for flow)

 

[spank]

I raised the lights several months ago in an attempt to see if it made a difference. It didn't. Ill lower them again.

 

[jrgilles]

Could it be something in the dosing? Maybe adding stuff too fast and shocking the corals? Looks like you are doing things right, so seems a bit odd that you are having trouble.

I keep my chemistry in check with a kalk reactor and calcium reactor, so don't adjust much. Maybe if you are doing a lot of adjustments, you could space it out a bit. Maybe someone more knowledgable will chime in. Sounds like you have a pretty good setup going

 

[kpiotrowski]

The skimmer is rated for 60-100g and you have 145g of water. is the 5ppm nitrates from a reliable kit? how about water changes, how much -how often? I would also look at your lighting since you are saying that lower light corals are doing ok. I am pretty new to the hobby so lighting is an area I need to bring myself up to speed on but...do you have enough PAR and in the right spectrum of light. my undersrtanding is that 14k looks real nice but isn't really the best for growing. 6500k looks real yellow but is in more of a spectrum of usable light ( someone correct me if I'm wrong) so with just 14k lights you would need more duration, and at 18inch above water even more.

sorry to hear of your frustration!

 

[trido]

Lighting probably isnt an issue providing your bulbs aren't too old. I used to change out my 14K bulbs every nine months and had great success. Some can go longer but IME the bulbs PAR drops off significantly (coral growth rate) as well as the colors of the corals.

How often are you doing water changes?
Are you using RO/DI water or tap?
How big are your Koralia power heads?
What kind of test kits are you using?

Are far as dosing, I'm all for it, I would highly recommend you use something more simple like a two part from Bulk Reef supply.

Something is going on, You shouldn't have any nitrates in your system AFAIAC.

 

[phasezero]

If it were me i would try and take it back to the basics and just work on stability in all aspects. Forget the dosing for now and just do weekly changes. Go back to good old instant ocean and bring your light back down to 6-10 above the water line.

 

[nata]

Are you using an rodi unit?could be sth in the water..

 

[Skimmy]

im thinking as far as the 'trates are concerned, that it 's probably detritus underneath/within the rockwork.
or possibly a buildup of detritus in your sump/fuge. also, do you feed dry or frozen foods, how often d oyou feed, and do you rinse your frozen??

as far as your corals are concerned, i dont think the issue is your salt, your lights, or the other parameters you mentioned..
to me it almost sounds like there is something that is contaminating your water... mabye a penny in the sump, cheap plastic hoses,
rusty pump, etc... you might want to do a full clean- up on all gear and search for issues. probably not stray current since you have a grounding probe...
but maybe it's failed?? hav u checked for possible current in the water recently?
also, what name brand chemicals do you use for dosing? you should use the best analytical or pharmaceutical grade chemical additives possible,
as there might also be an innapropriate builup of poor quality chems from dosing in any closed system.

 

[kpiotrowski]

sry to get a bit off topic, but do many people use grounding probes...I mean is it a big deal in a reef tank, and how do you test for stray current. an ohm meter with one prob grounded?

 

[vinny2261]

Grounding probe will save your life!!!!

 

[spank]

Water change frequency is probably on the low side. 40% every month and a half or so.
I am using a drinking quality Di filter. No Ro filter necessary on my water.
2 Koralias2's and 2 of the smallest available forget the number.
Test kits are API. The bad one was of a higher end kit. I forget the manufacturer.
I double checked for stray voltage/current. 4.6 mv. Definitely a difference when i unplug the grounding probe. So i assume it is working.
Hoses used are clear vinyl ones from home depot. They are the ones that were always on it. And the problems have recently gotten worse so unless the hoses are degrading I tend to believe that is not the problem.
Seachem for dosing.
Brand new bulbs.
I guess I dont know if the nitrate kit is reliable. I will buy another one and report back on the results.

Nitrates:
I realize Ideal Nitrates are 0. But is 5 really cause for concern? I heard clams enjoy some. the API kits are kind of hard to read and they could be even closer to zero than I reported. I do rinse frozen foods. I have a hard time attributing this to nitrates but I will increase water changes to eliminate it as a concern.

I think I am going to make a swith ch to the new seachem 'salinity" salt.

I tried to answer everyones questions. I really appreciate the feedback. On a sour note an elegance coral that survived in another hobbyists tank for two years is now taking a down turn in my tank after three months.

 

[vinny2261]

Have you ever treated your tank with something that is not reef safe? I have had a similar problem with a 125 I have been working on, it also has crushed aragonite for substrate. Softies seem to do great and the hard corals seemed to slowly fade out and die. I was wondering if I should pull out the aragonite and replace it with sand. If your are using RO/DI are you buffering your water before you add it to the tank?

 

[phasezero]

Water change frequency is probably on the low side. 40% every month and a half or so.
I am using a drinking quality Di filter. No Ro filter necessary on my water.
2 Koralias2's and 2 of the smallest available forget the number.
Test kits are API. The bad one was of a higher end kit. I forget the manufacturer.
I double checked for stray voltage/current. 4.6 mv. Definitely a difference when i unplug the grounding probe. So i assume it is working.
Hoses used are clear vinyl ones from home depot. They are the ones that were always on it. And the problems have recently gotten worse so unless the hoses are degrading I tend to believe that is not the problem.
Seachem for dosing.
Brand new bulbs.
I guess I dont know if the nitrate kit is reliable. I will buy another one and report back on the results.

Nitrates:
I realize Ideal Nitrates are 0. But is 5 really cause for concern? I heard clams enjoy some. the API kits are kind of hard to read and they could be even closer to zero than I reported. I do rinse frozen foods. I have a hard time attributing this to nitrates but I will increase water changes to eliminate it as a concern.

I think I am going to make a swith ch to the new seachem 'salinity" salt.

I tried to answer everyones questions. I really appreciate the feedback. On a sour note an elegance coral that survived in another hobbyists tank for two years is now taking a down turn in my tank after three months.

Nitrates of 5 is nothing to worry about. My SPS tank usually has around 5 ppm. Flow seems a little on the low side for a 100 gallon tank. Unless your return pump makes a bunch of flow. Just to make sure i'm reading it right, every month and a half you pull 40% and replace with new make up water? Try smaller changes every 2 weeks and see how that works out.

 

[lmannan]

5 on nitrates is not to bad but should try to keep more close to 0. I can say for me that my corals would be very upset if i let the nitrates get this high. If you do not have time to do water change as often as needed then maybe you want to add a carbon reactor GFO reactor and pellet Reactor lol. They are probably high due to water change being done so infrequent. How many fish do you have in the tank? Are they all reef safe? I also have never let my alk change that drastic in a week.

 

[NC2WA]

IMO, 5 on nitrates is the least of your worries..concentrate on getting back to basics..keep it simple...personally, I would do water changes every two weeks instead of one massive change at a time and stop dosing all products except calcium and Mg until the water chemistry is more stable...if the collection cup on your skimmer is NOT being emptied at least once a week, then you need to adjust..this could be part of the issue..i would increase the flow on the tank to ensure the skimmer is being utilized fully..if you think test kits are bad, then take a water sample to a LFS for them to check, while u are there I would have them check the TDS of your DI water just to make sure it reads 0..there is one level that was not mentioned..PO4, what is the level?

if you dont have a TDS meter or a PO4 kit, I have both and dont mind testing for you..

 

[trido]

2 Koralias2's and 2 of the smallest available forget the number.

This is absolutely one of the biggest factors why you cant grow SPS. Even if you had four K-2's at 600GPH each your would only have a 24X turnover in your tank. IMO a minimum of a 30x turnover is for softies and from 50-100X turnover is good for SPS. For example, I have two K-2s (600GPH each), two Koralia evo 1100's, an evo 1400, and a maxijet 1200 (300GPH) for a total of 5100GPH in my 65 gallon display. A 78X turnover, and I wonder if I need more.

A higher amount of flow will also get more detritous and gunk to your skimmer.
I agree with the few previous comments about your WC's. Smaller ones more often will help stabilize your chemistry and ionic balance a lot. Salt mixes have trace minerals that we don't test for and IMO the supplement your using aren't replacing them. IMO, only water changes can do that unless your buying Iodine, amino acids and a couple other supplements I cant think of right now.

 

[dnjan]

Grounding probe will save your life!!!!

Isn't that what a GFI is for?

Back to the "unsuccessful" tank - Sometimes it is better to understand the environment one has created and add animals compatible with that environment, rather than trying to get animals to live in an environment that is not ideal for them. In the latter case, the animals will tend to slowly die.

 

[spank]

Update:

I added 2 korallia 1400's (1400gph)
changed the return pump to a quiet one 6000 (1000 gph)
so total flow is around 5000 gph

Started doing weekly 25% water changes with seachems salinity salt
levels are more stable. Not having to dose nearly as much.

P04 is and always has been 0
protein skimmer is productive

Started feeding phytoplankton and more coral frenzy.

0 TDS on DI water filter.
I double checked my hydrometer to a local stores and determined it was reading .002 low. So for three years I have had a salinity of 1.028. Problem corrected.

Results: Acan and chalice recession has slowed. Feeders are always out. Mushrooms are no longer popping off their rock. Unfortunately the frogspawn is losing a couple heads every three days. A week and it will be gone. Over a week a large pocillipora colony has lost most of its polyps. Hard to know if it is related to all the changes or some other issue.

A lot of small problems adds up to failure. Overall I think it is heading in the right direction but hard to tell when seeing negative effects on corals that used to be fine.

 

[jrgilles]

Sounds like it might be getting on track. grats.

Pocillopora often do a 'polyp bailout' if they get stressed. I would keep your eyes open for little ones beginning to grow around your aquarium