Water Changes

[Krish]

So who does them? If so, why do you do them? Because you were told you had to otherwise you couldn't keep a successful aquarium? Is it essential and totally necessary? I know someone who use to do a 100% water change each week on their tank (not all one time, but over the course of one week, they did a 100% water change on their tank every week which exceeded 100 gals). Then, I've actually heard of people who never do any water changes and say things could never be better. Does this mean that those that do water changes are possibly running in-efficient systems unable to maintain themselves and maybe something needs tweaking or does it mean they are just doing water changes thinking they are doing something good, but in essence, they are actually doing more harm than good and is totally un-necessary?

Care to discuss??? Want to hear your thought on this subject.

 

[akunochi]

water changes replace depleted trace elements and remove DOC....

 

[Peppie]

OMG!!!!!!
I am supposed to change the water???
I do less than 10% every 7 to 10 days. Only because that is what I have read. I am guilty of not testing as often as I probably should.

 

[akunochi]

I don;t test.....ever

 

[Krish]

water changes replace depleted trace elements and remove DOC....

How did I know you'd be the first to reply?? :lol: ! So do you do them? Couldn't trace elements be replaced by dosing? Also can't DOC be removed through skimming and mechanical filtration? Just a few more thoughts...

OMG!!!!!!
I am supposed to change the water???
I do less than 10% every 7 to 10 days. Only because that is what I have read. I am guilty of not testing as often as I probably should.

Who says you have to test? LOL! Why do you feel you need to test? I've heard of some people that don't test and don't have any issues LOL! So much to think about...


Discuss...

 

[akunochi]

Because I am bored.

yep but dosing is precise and expensive....and yes filtration removes DOCS

 

[ak_reefer]

I do a 15-20% water change every 10-14 days, as stated already to replinish trace elements. I test my water once a week for peace of mind.

 

[saltwaterfishes]

I normally do a water change between 8-10 weeks. I have not done a water change 12+ weeks....things are a bit hectic right now. I dose Alk, Ca, and Mg. And test when dosing is not consistant.

 

[Skimmy]

the solution to pollution is dilution...

and skimmers,
and carbon,
and refugiums,
and ro/di,
and high flow....

 

[Peppie]

So if you dose on a reg, basis, then you dont need to do a WC?
Doesnt your bio-load weigh into this issue? If I had 4" 0f fish in a 180gal tank. Couldnt I go much longer between WC, as opposed to haveing 24'' of fich in the same 180?
Is testing for worry-warts? Or is it a bad rumor started by LFS? Now they can sell you something to fix the problem.

 

[07FocusST]

Water Chanes? Water Testing? What are those? I stopped performing water changes a while ago. Not really worth it IMO. I just provide Top Off water and supplement the tank(s) once a week. Never really got into testing. After using 3 or so different tests from different manufacturers I came across that the end result vary by individual tests. Elos is one of the best IMO. I never had to dose and add any sort of Calcium product as my LR and Sand too care of all the needed CA supplement. Always seemed to have an inbalance issure between Alk & Mg. Once those were balanced of then I never had any problem ever again. Just a once a week supplement of Brightwell Aquatics Elemental Powder, their MG Powder and Alk powder took care of bout 95% of the supplements needed. I rarely added BWA Iodine.

 

[user 2204]

I use Skimmys motto most of the time.

Last time I did a wc was April and then June. No ill effects. I only test when or if I am dosing. Otherwise I do not test and have learned to read my coral health as to when I need to perform a wc.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[mojoreef]

OK since everyone is on one side of the game, I will be "Devils Advocate":spider:Now this is intended for those that have a bit of time in the hobby and are able to visually notice small changes in their systems.

water changes replace depleted trace elements

So its better to replace trace elements with the crudest, dirtest and the most contaminated form of additive?? (salt mixes) where in 99% of the cases have way to much of what we dont want in our systems?? (heavy metals, elements elevated way beyond NSW)

the solution to pollution is dilution...

Hmm so this follows the line of it will take less time to kill stuff?? :doh::eek2:

I don;t test.....ever

Ah so its best to just let problems build up over time so it becomes a massive/complicated issue to fix down the line??:biggrin1: :angel:


Ok so in the sprit of discussion lets talk

Mojo

 

[07FocusST]

So if you dose on a reg, basis, then you dont need to do a WC?
Doesnt your bio-load weigh into this issue? If I had 4" 0f fish in a 180gal tank. Couldnt I go much longer between WC, as opposed to haveing 24'' of fich in the same 180?
Is testing for worry-warts? Or is it a bad rumor started by LFS? Now they can sell you something to fix the problem.

I may be 100% wrong but I do believe that if you have a proper 1lb lr/gal minimum then you shouldn't have too much of an issue. My 55G was WAY overstocked and had a small Eshopps skimmer. Never did water changes, just dosed a few supplements every week. My CUC was very large and vast. I had a 3.5" sand bed in my DT, 2x large sand sifting stars and all the snails and crabs and so on..... Had a huge ball of cheato to help out. Never saw a speck of nusience algae. Everyone was growing too fast. thats when I upgraded to my 180G.

 

[07FocusST]

OK since everyone is on one side of the game, I will be "Devils Advocate":spider:Now this is intended for those that have a bit of time in the hobby and are able to visually notice small changes in their systems.



So its better to replace trace elements with the crudest, dirtest and the most contaminated form of additive?? (salt mixes) where in 99% of the cases have way to much of what we dont want in our systems?? (heavy metals, elements elevated way beyond NSW)




Hmm so this follows the line of it will take less time to kill stuff?? :doh::eek2:




Ah so its best to just let problems build up over time so it becomes a massive/complicated issue to fix down the line??:biggrin1: :angel:


Ok so in the sprit of discussion lets talk

Mojo

Hey, Welcome Back Mike!!! Long time no talk!

 

[mojoreef]

Hey Focus!

So if you dose on a reg, basis, then you dont need to do a WC?
Doesnt your bio-load weigh into this issue? If I had 4" 0f fish in a 180gal tank. Couldnt I go much longer between WC, as opposed to haveing 24'' of fich in the same 180?
Is testing for worry-warts? Or is it a bad rumor started by LFS? Now they can sell you something to fix the problem.​

If you dose and dont test you will eventually run into issues. This I can garrantee. Yes Bioload plays a huge part in it. Look at it like a scale, one side is crap and the other side is the stuff that cleans up crap. If you tip the scale one way or the other you will notice it.

I may be 100% wrong but I do believe that if you have a proper 1lb lr/gal minimum then you shouldn't have too much of an issue

As above it depends on the scale, Live rock does not filter water, actually it is a source for Phosphaes and nitrates, BUT in saying that the critters that live in it and on it do a good job of polishing the water. If you had a small bioload you could rely on it for awhile, but not to long


Mojo​

 

[akunochi]

Peppie,

I am going to be all thorough and such to provide a complete answer. But I have been drinking my lunch so bare with me if there are some confusing parts.


The purpose of water changes is in essence the same as the use of Macro algae, skimmer, Rodi, carbon, turf scrubbers, etc. To export dissolved organic compounds from your water column. This ties into your flow to keep the solid organics in the water column so that they may be removed as well. Water changed also replace those trace elements.

So no by simply dosing you cannot eliminate the need to do water changes completely, but you can REDUCE the time frame in which they need to be done. Your example of the 180 is fitting. Obviously the fish is not the only factor though. Sure the fish adds bio-load but so does your feeding schedule water source etc. You depletion of the trace elements is directly tied to you coral stock.

You must have a way to remove the organics in your system.

Next:

Testing...These are my personal opinions. I don't test because I think that people let the numbers of the test results force them into adding and removing elements into the system in order to match NSW conditions. This is kinda ridiculous as the key to a successful system is stability. The corals and fish in your system are very tolerant of gradual change and far less of drastic change. So I just leave the system alone unless I see a reason to test for a SPECIFIC chemical.

 

[mojoreef]

LOL I love it!!, you should drink more often!!

Mojo

 

[akunochi]

OK since everyone is on one side of the game, I will be "Devils Advocate":spider:Now this is intended for those that have a bit of time in the hobby and are able to visually notice small changes in their systems.



So its better to replace trace elements with the crudest, dirtest and the most contaminated form of additive?? (salt mixes) where in 99% of the cases have way to much of what we dont want in our systems?? (heavy metals, elements elevated way beyond NSW)

No but it is far more practical then testing for the ones you can test for and dosing a proper amount, not to mention the huge cost associated with getting the lab grade chemicals to dose, the time to manually dose or the cost of a nice doser. The new higher end salts aren't nearly as bad as they used to be with far fewer non-desirables.



Hmm so this follows the line of it will take less time to kill stuff?? :doh::eek2:

Or create a buffer to allow time to no kill stuff....




Ah so its best to just let problems build up over time so it becomes a massive/complicated issue to fix down the line??:biggrin1: :angel:

No but you should be able to tell by the behavior of the tank inhabitants that something is not correct, or by the tint in the water, or growth of non-desirables, appearance of a large amount of filter feeders, etc etc etc.


Ok so in the sprit of discussion lets talk



Mojo

response above in red.

 

[Peppie]

Thanks for the feed back guys. I threw that out there to see were it would go. I have done SOME research. But many may have not. Now they Know why TO or NOT to. Great discussion.
Seth, Dude you need to find a hobby or something!!! lol