Wet vs. Dry Skimmate

[NaH2O]

Great discussion!

The polar regions outside of the air bubble stabilize the air bubble very much like a soap bubble in your kitchen sink or your washing machine. This is why a foam begins to build up at the surface of the skimmer. As the protein laden bubble reaches the top of the protein skimmer, the proteins begin to accumulate which creates a stable foam bubble. These stable foam bubbles take a long time to pop. Thus, the proteins slowly are concentrated at the top of the skimmer where they are slowly pushed through the "throat" of the protein skimmer and into the collection cup.
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This is going to result in a skimmate that is very concentrated in organics. Isn't that a good thing?

I think removing the highest concentration of organics is important. So, based on the quote above I belive wet skimmate would remove the most of organics. How then, does dry skimmate differ? Is it a higher concentration of trace elements, and less organics only?....or would it be just less of everything in general....including emptying the cup.

Regarding over removal of nutrients.....I really think with our systems being closed and the amount of nutrients coming from food, and other things it would be very difficult to be "void" of them. Look at the impurities that come from non-analytical grade additives.....or using carbon that leaches phosphates.....or a salt mix (yikes....another discussion). What I'm saying is we introduce plenty of nutrients anyway. Think about what the live rock spits out on a daily basis.

 

[reedman]

I agree Nikki. I just hate to see new reefers get the idea that they need a 6 ft super skimmer on a 20 galon tank. If you have not been in the hobby long or don;t have the background you could easily come to that conclusion from this and other discussions.

On a larger system (50 gallon and up) I don't think there is any risk of overskimming or removing too much of anything (I still don't think there is much to be gained by using a disproportionately large skimmer either). On the smaller (and to a larger extent, Nano tanks) I do believe you can have too much of a "good thing" when it comes to skimming. Perhaps its the way you use the tool and not the tool itself. What I mean is, if you use a large skimmer on a small system, mybe you have to shut it off when you feed or clean the tank, then turn it back on when you are done.

My thought is that the smaller the volume of water in the tank, the more you have to be aware of what your skimmer is pulling out and at what rate. If you are pulling out a lot of nutrients from a small volume, then add a relatively large amount of nutrients via food or additives, this would pose a shock to the system.

 

[NaH2O]

Reed - Good point on the nano tanks. Certainly, my skimmer would be overkill for a nano....let alone the volume of water in my skimmer is a nano tank in itself. Do nano tanks really need a skimmer? Or do water changes do the work?

Nikki,

I can't believe you showed everyone that picture of when you had short hair.

LOL - amazing what a few thousand dollars in plastic surgery can do for a person.

 

[Curtswearing]

I just hate to see new reefers get the idea that they need a 6 ft super skimmer on a 20 galon tank. If you have not been in the hobby long or don;t have the background you could easily come to that conclusion from this and other discussions.

Good Point. That is a picture of a skimmer for a waste management plant that I once put in another thread as a joke. That is not for fish tanks (although I suppose a big public aquarium might use them too).

 

[DonW]

So how do you know if your skimmer is to big or to small or just plain junk.
I use a T1000, I think its rated up to 250g. I can set it to fill the cup daily or weekly. My understanding is that your skimmer when maxed out should be ahead of your tank. Meaning some days it should'nt produce foam or very little.
Does this mean we keep buying or building expensive skimmers until we stumble on the right one? How do they come up with these ratings? One T1000 description I read says from 25 to 250 gallons thats quit a range. This would lead me to believe its more than enough for my 80. Yet if I max out the flow I can dry foam the lid right off in an hour or so.

Don

 

[Curtswearing]

Yet if I max out the flow I can dry foam the lid right off in an hour or so.

I'm very much of the opinion that if you are producing skimmate, you aren't overskimming. I know a lot of people who run their skimmer as hard as possible and put one of those plumbing barbs into their skimmer cup and run a hose from the cup to a larger resevoir so that they can keep skimming. A lot of manufacturers even make add on kits for this purpose. That might be something to consider.

I have typically found the ratings from the manufacturers to be on the high side. I don't know how Aquamedic determined their ratings either.....that thing would barely fit in 25gallons LOL.

 

[CarlaW]

What a great discussion!! I don't know who it was, it was on the first page, mentioned that a clean skimmer is more efficient than a dirty one. Not to change the subject, but , how often does everybody clean their skimmer, weekly, every 2 weeks.............

 

[Curtswearing]

From May to December....I do it weekly. Every six months or so I like to use a little vinegar in addition to the water. (Never use soap or other chemicals). From January to April, I do it when I get to it. I'm a beancounter.

 

[reedman]

I just did a thourough cleaning with muriatic acid and water and oby what a difference! I used a 4:1 mix of acid to water and rant the skimmer in a bucket. Cleaned the skimmer and pump up real good. I then ran the skimmer in clean water for quite a while to make sure any residual was gone. Reinstalled the skimmer and the thing was pushing foam like there was no tomarow. I will try to do this every 6 months I think. I couldn't believe the difference.

 

[Curtswearing]

Wow Reed....I have never thought of using muriatic acid. I guess I was wrong and some chemicals can be alright. Great info!!!

It apparently is not a problem like soap is. Soap is obviously a problem due the surfactant issue similar to the way that body oils from our arms messes with skimming. Don't EVEN get me started on people putting garlic oil in their tank.

I'm glad to hear it worked out well.

 

[CarlaW]

Hey, thanx for the cleaning ideas, Curt and Reed. I never really thought of using vinegar or muriatic acid. I just tried the vinegar approach on mine, it was time anyways, and I can't believe the difference. I even soaked the beckett in vinegar before doing the scrub trip. I can't wait to take a whiff of the stuff being produced. Wait!!!!! That's sick
Thanx alot for the heads up. Reed, where do you get muriatic acid?

 

[reedman]

I picked mine up at Lowes. It's in the paint prep area.

 

[CarlaW]

Reed,
when you said 4:1 acid to water, is that right?

 

[reedman]

4 parts water 1 part acid. Whew! I'm glad you asked and didn't mix the other way

 

[CarlaW]

Yeah, a guy wouldn't have to bother chewing his fingernails anymore, would he?
Thanx again, I'll give that a try down the road here and let you know the results.
Nikki, sorry I stole this for awhile
Back to where we were, I have one of those skimmers that has the extra collection cup, about a foot tall, And I have yet to fill it up in a week, betwwen cleanings, so I don't think you can overskim. Like Curt said, if you are producing skimmate, you are not over skimming.
Don, would the size of the pump that is recommended for the skimmer determine the rating on the skimmer? I don't know, that is an interesting question.

 

[NaH2O]

No problem here, Charlie....this thread is very informative. The cleaning of a skimmer brings up an important point about maintaining our equipment. I don't think I would clean out my skimmer body every week, as getting an insump skimmer out and in (especially in a stand) isn't the greatest job. I don't let my cup get very full.....the smell is enough to gag you when the stand doors open. (grrrr....if I could get my skimmer working properly again).

What about additives.....what have you noticed that makes the skimmer "go crazy"? Why would adding something to your tank create such havoc with this piece of equipment?

 

[CarlaW]

I have noticed that golden pearls will virtually shut my skimmer down. Also, if you do alot of arm coralling, the skimmer just about stops foaming. Mysis shrimp, if I don't rinse them off, will have me emptying the collection cup almost immediately. I think that certain oils in additives, and on your skin, have a bad effect on this equipment.
Nikki, as for the smell, can you figure out a way to work some carbon into the mix? My waste collector has a place for carbon. The only time it smells is when I open that up to empty it.

 

[Schottman]

nicki on your 120 what type of skimmer are you running and what pump?

 

[NaH2O]

I have a Euro-Reef CS8-3 with a Sedra 5000 pump. The thing worked like a dream....oh how I loved my skimmer, but the union to the cup leaked. Euro-Reef said they were sending me a new skimmer without question. Well, since that time, a few teeth on my impeller broke (I don't know how, no snail or rock), and I've asked ER about sending me a new impeller. The first email I sent was replied to with "are you sure they are broken?". I answered "yes, I have the broken teeth right here". I sent them another email on Friday, without a response. Hopefully, the great customer service I had experienced so far will not go down the toilet, and they will include a new impeller with the skimmer they are sending me. GRRR - sorry, I needed to rant.

 

[CarlaW]

wow, what a bummer. hope everything works out. what are you doing for a skimmer?