What is the best ilumination?

[Carlos Antonio]

Hi,
I have an aqua with 1 x 0,50 x 0,50 meters and I'd like to know what would be the best ilumination for this:

One 250W MH or Two 150W MH

I intend mantain LPS and SPS.

Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[plack]

The tank in US Gallons is 39.37" X 19.68" X 19.68 " .

One halide is generally used to cover about 0.6 meters square (With a good reflector). If you kept sps right near it. Then croceas near it on the bottom. Then lps further away. You might get away with just one fine.

If your tank gets allot of high light demanding corals and the rock work is say 0.8 meters long the ones on the ends will not get as much illumination in wich case Two halides would be better.



Paul

 

[krisfal]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers Carlos, I think you will find this is an excellent resource for information.

Paul answered your question well, but in my opinion I would go with the 2 MH, in my experience it is better to with the set-up that will give you the most options for stocking your tank. With 2 lights you will have the option of choosing higher light demanding species throughout the tank.

 

[Carlos Antonio]

Thanks Kris.
I've been learn a lot since 2005 just reading, but now I'm taking part in this forum.

If I use one 250W MH I will spend less energy than two 150W, but as you and Paul said I won't give a adequate spectre of ilumination on my reef.
But I think that de spectre wil be better than the economy of energy because the most important thing is de life of fishes and corals.

 

[Ditchplains2]

Niether, go with a T5 setup, mor evenly distributed light, and you can keep both lps and sps with ease and less heat, much less.

 

[plack]

Different corals grow at different depths!!!

Some adjust better than others!!

Having just attended a Speech from James fatheree in person and talking about lighting clams and the depths they come from. I can state he would "NEVER RECCOMEND crocea's to be under T-5 lighting alone". a Few clams in a thousand will defenitely live under it sucessfully But the rest will not !! And allot of us get croceas as they don't grow beyond 7" !

Go Diving and you will not see them Very Deep !!

This gentelman wants the best for a mixed reef.

While it may be do able it won't be best !

L.E.D's are the best IMO but way too expensize up front for now!



Paul

 

[Ditchplains2]

"Having just attended a Speech from James fatheree in person and talking about lighting clams and the depths they come from. I can state he would "NEVER RECCOMEND crocea's to be under T-5 lighting alone". a Few clams in a thousand will defenitely live under it sucessfully But the rest will not !! And allot of us get croceas as they don't grow beyond 7" !"


Have you honestly looked at any forums elsewhere, were people are using T-5 setups and keeping the most light demanding of specimens. I had quite a few crocea clams under my 8 bulb t-5 setup. Mr. Fatheree maybe be referring to under driven bulbs, but many studies have been done, I believe a famous one by Sanjay and a few others about the output of t-5 bulbs. Before you respond about "going diving", I'm a certfied PADI Advanced, rescue and master diver. I have been diving in many places both Caribbean and pacific island. In fact I was aboard a research vessel exploring Kingman Reef in my undergrad days. and I have seen many clams at varying depths. The fact that your touting LED's and the best light sources says a lot, LED's even the top of the line ones are not hiting the proper wavlengths of light (nano meters) and no study has been done to show they truly are good for growing corals esp sps, or clams. If you have such a study please provide and I will be happy to eat my words. The fact that LED's have been around for years and even with advent of PFO systems hardly anybody I have seen keeps these units or is happy with the growth results. I suggest natural sunlight at the equator is truly the best light source, second to that is fiber optics. Best of luck mate!

cheers!
David

 

[Jobiwan]

Fatherree made a point at the PSAS meeting last week that really hit home with me, Croceas can take a long time to starve to death if inadequate light is giving them 95% of the minimum nutrition output from their zooanthellae, and they will appear to thrive as they extend their mantles trying to catch enough photons. He also mentioned that there are varieties of clams that thrive at depths greater than 5 meters, such as Gigas and Derasa, these might survive under something other than MH, but he said it was very rare to find Croceas at greater depths than 5 meters, and never below 10. When power compacts were all the rage around 2000 lots of claims were made that high light demanding critters were thriving under PC setups, people will do that to justify the money they spend on a given setup because that is what they want to believe, that's just human nature, those folks are all strangely silent now. MH's are tried and true, let other hobbyists try the newer lighting options, and you will be guaranteed more than adequate lighting....

 

[Scooterman]

Fatherree made a point at the PSAS meeting last week that really hit home with me, Croceas can take a long time to starve to death if inadequate light is giving them 95% of the minimum nutrition output from their zooanthellae, and they will appear to thrive as they extend their mantles trying to catch enough photons. He also mentioned that there are varieties of clams that thrive at depths greater than 5 meters, such as Gigas and Derasa, these might survive under something other than MH, but he said it was very rare to find Croceas at greater depths than 5 meters, and never below 10. When power compacts were all the rage around 2000 lots of claims were made that high light demanding critters were thriving under PC setups, people will do that to justify the money they spend on a given setup because that is what they want to believe, that's just human nature, those folks are all strangely silent now. MH's are tried and true, let other hobbyists try the newer lighting options, and you will be guaranteed more than adequate lighting....

I couldn't say it better, to get maximum out of H.O. T5's you need to fill your hood across with many more lamps to get that of MH, usually 4 to 1 ratio. Lamps are to be replaced more frequently, If you read the many many people that use T5 & keep these clams & sps will majority tell you that they replace lamps around 6 to 8 months. It takes time for things to show up as living rather than thriving, show me the people that been doing it for years & their tanks then at start & now & have them explain how frequently they replace lamps & what (that what is important) are they keeping under them to compare really. I kept sps under VHO's & other light demanding corals & they grew but I wouldn't say long term they were really doing well, you can do it but lets see how long & what. Basically It all depends on what you want to keep or what you like, I like T5's & I agree many many coral will do very well under them & yes with those corals you probably can keep the lamps longer but that isn't a blanket statement.

 

[Jobiwan]

I"ve been running PC's on a thriving softie tank for over 5 years, I want to try T5's on that eventually, sounds like they would be perfect for that kind of setup...

 

[moortim]

Ah the MH vs T5 debate again...
I just want to tag along here.

Tim

 

[plack]

James Fatheree
about him and his book on clams you can look up:
http://www.fatherree.com/james/ (about his teaching career)
http://www.liquid-medium.com/ ( about the book on clams- I have one!)

Solaris led lights par intensity of halides ( these have not been around for years!)

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/8/review2

Enoughp said .

 

[Jobiwan]

I can't wait to try LED's...in about five years when the state of the art 3 watt phillips LED's increase in wattage, and when the price of the fixtures drops by 50%, it's gonna happen

 

[Scooterman]

The only problem with that test with the LED's is they use a 20k Lamp for comparison, we all know that those lamps produce the lowest PAR numbers than any other lower K lamps, I think they should of included a few 10K's also. I think it will take many years to advance & price to drop to be really competitive but at least they have it out & on the market & through that it will grow hopefully.

 

[plack]

They are working on 5 watt leds now! I believe they already have comparisons to 14K not 20 K plus the par is everywhere compared to halides wich gets less left and right of bulb center and it does not decrease over time the same amount !
It's basically just the up front money thats hard to swallow!
I know a few people that own them and love them!

 

[Scooterman]

Well money & PAR & eventually they may do very well but for now I'll stick to what is better at the moment, good reflectors & lower 10K lamps can't be beat to date! Imagine 5 watts per LED times how many to make a 48 inch hood? That can lead up to some change in power consumption very fast.

 

[Ditchplains2]

"It takes time for things to show up as living rather than thriving, show me the people that been doing it for years & their tanks then at start & now & have them explain how frequently they replace lamps & what (that what is important) are they keeping under them to compare really"

I was responding to an agrument for LED's not T5 versus MH, try to stay on topic to what I was arguing before you begin your own antithesis. I have had a year+ with my Tek5 setup with 3 crocea clams, nothing is dying or dead. I maybe a lucky man, but needless to say its working well for me. I'm sure results may vary depending on a lot of factors; healthy corals and clams aren't entirely achieved on light alone, water parameters and feeding play a factor as well.


Plack. "James Fatheree
about him and his book on clams you can look up:
http://www.fatherree.com/james/ (about his teaching career)"

Fatheree is teaching at Hillsborough Community College, no offense but having lived in the Tampa/St. Pete area this is no great shakes!! This is were most high school dolts and the like arrive. So if after your long arduous educational career obtaining your Phd (that's if he has one), seats you at Hillborough Community College were most of the student body is high or barely lucid I'll pass on his advice! Secondly, he is teaching earth science, astronomy, and neither places on his website show a degree in marine biology or biochemistry. He only has 18 course hours in biology, and no Phd. I think Im going to pass on his advice unless he has been farming or raising clams for profit as a living. At best he is yet another hobbyist with varying results and no scientific study to prove his observations. We all expereince varying results based on many factors in our aqauriums. Your happy with Led's so be it! I find most people who own a Solaris have sold their units because of being unhappy with the products claims or results. Led's have a long way to go before their aqauirum useful imho. Ofcourse Mh is tried and tested, but there is always the factor of whom is profiting from what their telling you. I happen to find T'5 very sps and clam friendly, yes I do change my bulbs out every 6 months, but that's what I choose over Uv and heat issues with MH. If your offering advice on what's the best lighting system, which you were, I offered my counter advice. You don't agree fine, but I don't see Fatheree as a source I am going to bet the farm on sorry.

If your speaking years down the road, then yes LED's are an option but not right now, truth be told Fiber Optics are available and doable right now and produce much better light then Led's, mh or t'5, but at a cost way beyond most of our ranges for proper mirrors, reflectors and insulating against heat.

Cheers!
David

 

[Scooterman]

"
I was responding to an agrument for LED's not T5 versus MH, try to stay on topic to what I was arguing before you begin your own antithesis. David

Who said anything about me referencing you in the first place?

but maybe partially in responce to..

Have you honestly looked at any forums elsewhere, were people are using T-5 setups and keeping the most light demanding of specimens. I had quite a few crocea clams under my 8 bulb t-5 setup. Mr. Fatheree maybe be referring to under driven bulbs, but many studies have been done, I believe a famous one by Sanjay and a few others about the output of t-5 bulbs. David

So before you throw your own antithesis at me, rethink that.

 

[moortim]

Hey Dichplains2, why so argumentative? Why not try and help others gain knowledge and understanding without criticizing? I don't want to start an argument with this statement I just know that this forum has remained very friendly and informative and I would like to see it kept that way. Your opinion can be expressed without putting down the opinions of others.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[MikeS]

Your opinion can be expressed without putting down the opinions of others.

Agreed....let's keep the debate civil and relevent, or this thread gets locked...

MikeS