Why the new rules??

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Personally, I think the rule is great and wouldn't be opposed to seeing it stricter. I am a muscle car guy as well and when I go on other forums for information it gets so disseminated into space since there are millions of members on the site and over half are just there to sell and not give help or advice. I am glad this site has restricted things; it makes those who are not committed to being neighborly leave. Even though I haven't really talked directly to a lot of you, it still feels like a family. So on that note...what I want for Christmas....:D

And as for you.. I still need to meet you..LOL :)
 
I am an offender of the for sale forum. Most of my posts are in the livestockforsale section. I remember when I was told about this web site and levstock section by another membre on here. Its what drew me here. I was starting a new tank, and didn't realized the cost of everything out of the gate. I have gotten some pretty affordable (and alot of "not so affordable") things on this web site. I'm really glad I wound up in the section that alows me to post in the for sale section. 90% of the time I don't any questions regarding anything about my tank, when I do I really have no idea what I even need to ask.

Regardless of where I post, or how much I do...it's still dwarfed by the ammont of information I read on this site. New rule semi okay with me, even if I wasn't able to post. Is there a way to make new member unable to post but still send PM's concerning items for sale?

That way everyone is still completely capable of putting themselves in the "negative" Like I do to the best of my abailities (or wallets abilities), I mean wouldn't that prevent the new sellers from posting and not prevent the nubs like me from being able to get something we not be able to afford somewhere else?

Not trying to stir the pot but its a genuine question/suggestion I'm curious to know the respone too.
 
I am an offender of the for sale forum. Most of my posts are in the livestockforsale section. I remember when I was told about this web site and levstock section by another membre on here. Its what drew me here. I was starting a new tank, and didn't realized the cost of everything out of the gate. I have gotten some pretty affordable (and alot of "not so affordable") things on this web site. I'm really glad I wound up in the section that alows me to post in the for sale section. 90% of the time I don't any questions regarding anything about my tank, when I do I really have no idea what I even need to ask.

Regardless of where I post, or how much I do...it's still dwarfed by the ammont of information I read on this site. New rule semi okay with me, even if I wasn't able to post. Is there a way to make new member unable to post but still send PM's concerning items for sale?

That way everyone is still completely capable of putting themselves in the "negative" Like I do to the best of my abailities (or wallets abilities), I mean wouldn't that prevent the new sellers from posting and not prevent the nubs like me from being able to get something we not be able to afford somewhere else?

Not trying to stir the pot but its a genuine question/suggestion I'm curious to know the respone too.

Well I can say for another forum that they are able to block you from seeing the F/S forum and they can also block all your PMs whether receiving or sending it. So RF's new rule is still pretty loose compared to other forums.
 
Bottom line is:

1. We are not ebay, we are not a classified ads site, we are a reefkeeping site meant to share information and help with each other.

2. I get many responses to these rules telling me I am doing a disservice to the members here. I say bull-******. If all people want to do is buy or sell, they are free to join another site. Sorry to be so blunt but ebay or your local store is better suited for that kind of thing.

3. Any one trying to push their post count up arbitrarily to get past the rules will not be using this site for very much longer. Based on what I have seen by a specific member today, I am more inclined to make the rules even stiffer in the very near future.

Amen......
 
Boy maxx I'd love nothing more than to jump all over you with your drive by quips and all, but I will refrain. Youve had it in for me for long time, and I bet you'd love nothing more than to have me pop off and get banned.

Not gonna do that this time.

Feel free to re-read my post. I wasn't posting for the purpose of giving him advice on how to beat the system. In fact I told him to take it to craigslist and that his rant was kinda immature. I didn't realize that changing a signature would violate terms, but by the conviction before trail I guess your feelings for me are the same.

Don't bring your "let's take these disputes up privately via PM" either. You take shots at me in public, I'll defend myself the same way.

It's too bad a mod cannot be added to my ignore list.





Brett,
So after seeing all of this discussion above and having read MtDewMn's posts.....

Why would you even think about suggesting a way around the rules???

Do you stay awake at night and think of ways to stir controversy, or is just an amazing talent of yours?



Nick
 
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I personally think that the rules here need to be much more strict, there is way way way too much hijacking and BS chit chat in our informative threads and forums. I wish we would all get back to the real deal and talk reef discussion and take all the stupid nonsess to the social networks! Cheers to you Dewman for raising our standards!!!! Bravo!!!

Cheers
Matt
 
I have to disagree here. I feel that if I can get a sweet deal from a new member on something I want/need great! I have used this site for ALL reef keeping needs which includes information and deals on dry/live goods. To be honest I couldn't have done my reef without the ability to buy and sell goods, which i'm sure I got somethings from under 50 posts and I know I did under 50 posts. Plus some of the most active users of this site never post, they just read.

Further more I don't feel it hurts anything.... I would think you guys would want to make this as much as a resource as you can.

If people are abusing, ban them.

I just look back at when I started my reef and I couldn't have done it without this site which included buying and selling.....

just my 2 cents and to be my only post on this forum.... not looking to discuses

**** with that said, thanks for an amazing site!
 
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I think a few people really missed the point of my post, some also probably just did not read it.

Let me try and re-word the question I asked.

How does somebody with less then 50 posts detract, defame, or even effect the content of reefffrontiers period. There called personal messages for a reason. Giving private messaging privlages to someone with less then 50 posts, as far as I can comprehend(I'm not a moderater, i only see whats allowed etc,etc...don't get P.O.'d), would benifit those folks who have exceeded post restriction on the for sale forums by increasing the ammount of people with purchasing power increasing the ammount of potential buyers.

My question has nothing to do with selling items, I agree with whats being done. It does have everything to with having the ability of purchasing items when your new to the forum.




I'd appreciate a cease on random peanut gallery responses so my post dosn't seem to get overlooked by the mods again. Now before you go all WILD AND CRAZY roscoe, I realize that your the only one who directly quoted my post. This is in no way was directed toward you, your post did help in my understanding on the versatility of user restrictions. Your post was thoughtful informative and had a good intent, thanks.

I just fail to realize(or don't see) how somebody with a low post count being prevented the ability to purchase items established members are selling is bad. I don get it.
 
I think a few people really missed the point of my post, some also probably just did not read it.

Let me try and re-word the question I asked.

How does somebody with less then 50 posts detract, defame, or even effect the content of reefffrontiers period. There called personal messages for a reason. Giving private messaging privlages to someone with less then 50 posts, as far as I can comprehend(I'm not a moderater, i only see whats allowed etc,etc...don't get P.O.'d), would benifit those folks who have exceeded post restriction on the for sale forums by increasing the ammount of people with purchasing power increasing the ammount of potential buyers.

My question has nothing to do with selling items, I agree with whats being done. It does have everything to with having the ability of purchasing items when your new to the forum.




I'd appreciate a cease on random peanut gallery responses so my post dosn't seem to get overlooked by the mods again. Now before you go all WILD AND CRAZY roscoe, I realize that your the only one who directly quoted my post. This is in no way was directed toward you, your post did help in my understanding on the versatility of user restrictions. Your post was thoughtful informative and had a good intent, thanks.

I just fail to realize(or don't see) how somebody with a low post count being prevented the ability to purchase items established members are selling is bad. I don get it.

Not going wild or crazy. I'm just staing facts. It's all good. We have it better here than some other forums.
 
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First thing, we (mods) don't sit here & read every single post, all day 24/7 just to protect you, If you have issues, we provide many tools to get our attention, one would be to use report button when you have someone causing you troubles, also you can pm us if necessary, if you can.
We try to explain our reasoning in the user agreement & the stickies we put in those forums, If you don't understand these either PM us & report it & we'll get to you as soon as we can, sometimes quick & sometimes if real late at night the next morning but we try to get to them asap always & answer each situation best as we can.
I don't know for sure why a new member can't send a PM I didn't think that was an issue but maybe it is a byproduct of the sales forum rules recently revised. Regardless you can get to us one way or another if your having troubles, I can look into that a little farther to see if you actually can't send a pm.

OK, now to answer your other questions, first, this is a reef forum not e-bay, the sales forums plain & simple is a privilege that allows reefers to sell or buy used equipment etc. hopefully cheaper than new or to help out someone that hasn't the bucks to buy the best of everything. If your new & can't buy or sale until you meet the requirements of new members it is a small price to pay. Why? Because, majority of our forum issues (like 98%) are related to these for sales forums, people argue over prices or bad deals every single day, it is demanding of us to constantly monitor these & research every single post & person involved to figure out who is wrong & who is right. We moderators provid forum support to keep this site on focus of Reefing, first & foremost, it is run by design to be a peaceful place to share information freely, help newbies & grow as a community, we're not E-bay or Craig's list. These daily issues will always be problematic because everyone wants a great deal or free, or they want the most for the expensive equipment they paid for & feel is still worth. The moderators aren't responsible for your products or sales as stated in the rules, we don't decide whats fair or not, this should be done in private if someone has issues, or simply just not buy the darn thing if you think it was unfair or feel cheated maybe, we can't spend that much time to make everyone happy.
I suggest everyone read every single rule in all of our agreements, question a part of it then pm us with a quote of the part you don't understand or have issues with & we'll do what we can but inevitability we're not Gods so some things you will just have to either live with or move on. We can't make everything perfect for everyone, sorry but we have way to many users these days to do that.
Keep It simple, enjoy the site!;)

How does somebody with less then 50 posts detract, defame, or even effect the content of reefffrontiers period. There called personal messages for a reason. Giving private messaging privlages to someone with less then 50 posts, as far as I can comprehend(I'm not a moderater, i only see whats allowed etc,etc...don't get P.O.'d), would benifit those folks who have exceeded post restriction on the for sale forums by increasing the ammount of people with purchasing power increasing the ammount of potential buyers.

My question has nothing to do with selling items, I agree with whats being done. It does have everything to with having the ability of purchasing items when your new to the forum.




I'd appreciate a cease on random peanut gallery responses so my post dosn't seem to get overlooked by the mods again. Now before you go all WILD AND CRAZY roscoe, I realize that your the only one who directly quoted my post. This is in no way was directed toward you, your post did help in my understanding on the versatility of user restrictions. Your post was thoughtful informative and had a good intent, thanks.

I just fail to realize(or don't see) how somebody with a low post count being prevented the ability to purchase items established members are selling is bad. I don get it.
 
I think this gets back to Maxx's point. RF's only source of income is the Sponsors. We pay to advertise to RF's users. If everything they want can be found in a free classifieds sections why sponsor RF? By letting any Joe off the street join just to sell things it hurts the Sponsors, which in turn hurts RF. By setting it up this way it reduces the number of folks who join just to sell something but still allows the users who contribute to the site to have a great buy/sell resource. I think Chuck does a great job of walking the fine line where everybody is happy:)
 
Sell the rocks on craigslist, or change your signiture to say "ive got live rock FS, PM me!"

Reef Frontiers isnt making you throw away live rock, thats an immature response if you ask me.

Brett,
So after seeing all of this discussion above and having read MtDewMn's posts.....

Why would you even think about suggesting a way around the rules???

Do you stay awake at night and think of ways to stir controversy, or is just an amazing talent of yours?



Nick

Boy maxx I'd love nothing more than to jump all over you with your drive by quips and all, but I will refrain. Youve had it in for me for long time, and I bet you'd love nothing more than to have me pop off and get banned.

Not gonna do that this time.

Feel free to re-read my post. I wasn't posting for the purpose of giving him advice on how to beat the system. In fact I told him to take it to craigslist and that his rant was kinda immature. I didn't realize that changing a signature would violate terms, but by the conviction before trail I guess your feelings for me are the same.

Don't bring your "let's take these disputes up privately via PM" either. You take shots at me in public, I'll defend myself the same way.

It's too bad a mod cannot be added to my ignore list.

Brett,
If I had it in for you, you'd have been gone a long time ago.
Believe it or not, I've actually defended you a time or two in the Mod forums. I've gone ahead and quoted your initial post in to my response here, so feel free to re-read it yourself.
Take your emotions out this discussion, objectively re-read your post, and coldly, rationally explain to me how your statement about changing his signature to state that he has liverock for sale and to pm him for details should not be taken as a blatant end run on what MtDewMn just said? Coming from an active member here who has more than 3k posts, how do you think that looks?

I'm not the only one who took it that way either...
Kinda got a point there..

I apologize for being so blunt in asking if you lay awake at night thinking of new ways to stir controversy, that was a bit much. However, you do seem to have an amazing talent for being at the center of ALOT of controversy here. Most of the issues you have here stem from you not thinking about how your comments might sound to others....like your first one here in this thread.
You're not being convicted pre-trial, you were called on a thoughtless comment. Nothing more.

I cant recall a single time I've ever told you to take a disagreement involving me private. Making the post that I did, I fully expected you to respond in public, and I certainly dont blame you for it. I dont make drive by quips and then hide behind the Mod mantle and tell you to take things privately. Thats not my style. You made a public comment, so it had to be addressed publicly. I may very well have told you to take a disagreement with another member to PM, but never with me or with another mod....you must be confusing me with someone else.

With regards to ignoring me.....here's a real simple way to avoid me bothering you:

Stop and think about what you post, before you post it. If whatever you're posting can be reasonably interpreted as non hostile or not intentionally violating the terms of service as stated in the User's Agreement, you and I arent going to have any problems.

I'm more than happy to state that a particular post wasnt intended as someone took it or could have been misunderstood by the reader. Feel free to ask any of the other Mods or Admin for verification on this.

However, if you make a statement that can only be reasonably interpreted as hostile or violating the terms of service per the UA....then we, (the Mods & Admin) step in.

So respectfully, if you're feeling persecuted, or put upon by the Mods & Admin...then I suggest you think about what you say or how you say it here on the board.

Nick
 
Good post Cy. I appreciate it coming from a Sponsor.

Nick
 
Awesome response Cy. Couldn't agree more with it.

Sponsors = Free Reef Frontiers
No Sponsors = $$ Pay site.

I've seen it before with another Reef Forum site that went to be a pay site.

Cheers,
Alex


I think this gets back to Maxx's point. RF's only source of income is the Sponsors. We pay to advertise to RF's users. If everything they want can be found in a free classifieds sections why sponsor RF? By letting any Joe off the street join just to sell things it hurts the Sponsors, which in turn hurts RF. By setting it up this way it reduces the number of folks who join just to sell something but still allows the users who contribute to the site to have a great buy/sell resource. I think Chuck does a great job of walking the fine line where everybody is happy:)
 
i am a newbie without many posts, but i am a responsible user of RF and generally prefer to communicate via PM, since I may ask or respond in a way that does not sound intelligent. RF is an excellent place to get used or even new items and starter frags at a better price, and deal with people you believe to be responsible reefers. This is why I initially joined. However, I agree 100% with Cy from barrier reef, and try to support the LFS as much as my poor a$$ can. Its too bad that the actions of a few are punishing many more. This is especially true, when someone like myself is not wanting to sell at all, but is now restricted from a "WTB" post.
 
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