Wiring & Electrical Design & Safety!

[dwall174]

Great Information Scott

I'm going to be replacing my old service panel with a new larger one this summer. A friend of mine (retired electrician) is going to do the final connections for me, But I will be running most of the new wiring & boxes myself. I like the idea of a sub panel! I’ll have to double check with my friend & see if that will work for me also? Anyway I’m sure I will have some more questions before I get everything wired!

Thanks again for all the links!

 

[Scooterman]

I leave all the chemistry to Mike, Witt & the others but I try & help in the areas I do know :eek2:

 

[budgeon]

In refenece to "aquariumdebacle"


The reason the electrical code requires you to have two ground rods 6 feet apart is that one usaully is not enough to get the correct ohms to ground that your looking for which is 25 ohms or less.if you actually had someone test it you would probably find that two does not even reach 25ohms, but that is considered legal.To address the difference in potential' you wouldnt have difference in potential because they are both bonded together and then attached to the main panel. A difference in potential would come from e.g. putting in a circiut with a two wire system and driving a ground rod and considering that circiut to be grounded that would be a mistake because the ground does not go back to the panel creating a difference in potential .

As for you sub panel questions be careful on how you do the final connections. In your main panel the ground and neutral(white)should be tied together this might be done with a green screw or
a wire going from the neut to the ground bus.
In a sub panel this is not the case the ground and the neutral bus are separated this is called (floating the Neutral).Hopefully I didn't confuse anyone .

When it comes to breaker sizing try not to exceed 80% of your breaker rating e.g 15amp breaker try not to put any more than 12 amps on it. 20amp breaker no more than 16amps. there's a reasonn for this not to get to techy when a motor/pump starts
it can draw huge amounts of current .One last thing if you have equipment going for more than 3 hours in a day, which we all do pumps, lights etc this is considered a continuos load therefor add 125% to your total load of that circiut e.g (my lights and pumps draw 12amps on this circ. so 12x1.25=15amps so you need to put that circ. on #12wire.

If anyone has any other questions regarding my post feel free to pm me or stay tuned for future comments

 

[kevinpo]

Welcome to Reef Frontires budgeon!

Regards,
Kevin

 

[NaH2O]

Budgeon - Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!

 

[uwscotch]

Great info Scott, you are a gentle"person" and a scholar. To let you know with my breaker tripping issues (no it was not taking drugs), I tested the Amp draw on all of the items on my tank and I had two issues. The first was a pump that was on the way out drawing up to 10A at times. Throwing a tremendous amount of heat into my tank. The second was a grounding issue with the new lites, that appeared to be tripping the GFCI. Thank you for all of the help.

aaron

 

[plumber_bob]

I know this thread is about GFI's and what not, but I figured I would add this little tid-bit in. Whenever I splice a wire, I always solder them back together and add long lengths of heat shrink. Especially if the splice is in the hood, where it is exposed to water evaporation.
Bobby

 

[aquariumdebacle]

There is also a type of heat shrink wrap designed to work in wet situations. It has gooey stuff inside it to seal it better than normal shrink wrap.

 

[Scooterman]

Yes, the gooey type of heat shrink will seal out moisture, but not water proof, good information, I'll see if I can find some pictures of properly soldiering wires together, most people have a tendency to do it way wrong.

 

[Scooterman]

http://jaguar.professional.org/electrics/splicing.php

 

[Curtswearing]

Aquarium Electrical Systems by Jon Garner

 

[DonW]

Thanks for the link. Perfect timing for my next project.

Don

 

[Ed Hahn]

Ok, I need help please. I am planning on Running two external pumps. The pumps being a Sequence Stingray and Dolphin Aqua Sea 2100. Will I be able to run both pumps with my 2-250 Metal halides on one circuit?

 

[Scooterman]

Typically, if this was the only items on that one circuit, I'd say your fine but there are several things to consider.
A) Breaker size?
B) Any other equipment, home lighting, etc on this circuit?
C) Wire size from breaker to the outlet box, 14 Gauge or 12G?
D) Total current rating, adding amperage of each device, we know you have two 250W MH lights, so approximately total would be (using Ohm's Law) 2.0833Ampers each, depending on the efficiency of the ballast. So thoes two would be slightly over 4 amps, start-up amperage on these two could surge as high as 12 amps if both started Exactly the same time. I didn't look up your pumps but guessing about another 4 amps, total load would be around 9 amps on these 4 items alone, surging around 27 amps if all started at once, depending on the actual device, don't panic, circuit breakers are designed to handle these rush amperages for a short period of time, a 20 amp breakers may take a 50 amp rush/surge for a very short time, so you actually could probably have more on the circuit, I try and stick to the 80% total amperage of breaker rating, so if you add up all of your equipment amperage, don't exceed 80% of the breaker and you should be plenty safe. Usually in a home most circuits are designed with 80% in mind, kitchens maybe 60% 70% of the breakers, because of the potentially high loads.

 

[Ed Hahn]

Thanks Scooty,
I am looking into running a few more independant circuits from my breaker box. I have the room on my breaker box. I see you recommend 14 g. or 12 g wiring for this. I may run the wire myself and have a electrician do the final steps. I figured that would be cheaper in the long run. Do I need to have this inspected to be legal?

 

[Scooterman]

You may want to check for the local codes, or ask your friend and let him suggest the best route in doing this project. If your running any new wire get the 12g romex, and I like the Cutler Hammer or the Siemens over the rest, Cutler Hammer IMO is one of the best, we use the Industrially for years with no troubles.

 

[Ed Hahn]

Noted...Thanks Scooty,
One Dolphin 2100, One Sequence Stingray 1/4 hp pump, 2 -250 SE MH, 1- 250 HQI, 1 HQI pendant with fans (I hope), one 1/4 horse chiller, one 25 watt UV, 2 small fans, 2- 3/4 inch Sea Swirls, one power head for movement for UV, Euroreef CS8-2 skimmer, controller, and ? ...Do you see why I am sweating?

 

[Scooterman]

i know we can load a breaker very fast with a reef. I need to do some math but maybe I can try and take in consideration of about 80% load and see how much wattage is the limits on a 20 amp breaker, I'll post this as soon as I get a break at work.

 

[Ed Hahn]

Scooty,
Wife's Uncle came over. He is a electrician. He thinks two 20 amp isolated circuits should do the trick.
Yes he is running 12 guage wire. I had my little notebook. lmao. I thought about running two GFIs. I was warned about chillers shuting down and blowing a circuit. So I am thinking I will run thee plug in GFIs. One GFI for Chiller, One for pumps, One for Lighting etc.
So what do you think?
Thanks in Advance,
Ed

 

[Scooterman]

Wife's Uncle came over. He is a electrician. He thinks two 20 amp isolated circuits should do the trick.
Yes he is running 12 guage wire.

Sounds like what I'd do. Ask him if you could install two 20A AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters) at the breaker box. Now at the other end where your tank is located I'd run one of the circuits to a box with a series of two or four outlets, all wired with 12g wire. On the second circuit I'd run a box with two GFCI outlets, maybe four, let him decide that. This way, you can run your Chiller, lights with only the AFCI breakers and be well protected. The heater, pumps ect you want anything that goes in the water on the GFCI outlets, these will have the bonus benefit of the AFCI at the breaker box & the GFCI at the tank, this way you will be protected from Arc fires & being shocked. Pass that on to him & let me know what he thinks, I know it may sound overkill but I think it will be well worth the extra cash & done with period.