A Sediment substrate that works

[Katchupoy]

Mike... How high is this device of yours...

assuming in old style plenum...

1.5 inches of space for plenum and
3 inches for the sand...

a total of 4.5 inches... lets say 5 inches...

Are you planning on using around 4 inches maximum height so you will still have at least an inch of sand remaining on the heighest part of the plenum?

 

[MikeS]

WOW zero to 50 posts in a day, thats a strong turn out.
Ok some counter points.
Mike/Ceasar if we go with just one suction point do you think it would be enought to pull detritus and so on from such a great distance with enough power to pull it through the bed???

I think it would be...actually, I think a single pipe will give you a bit better suction...also gravity will be helping feed it a bit too...

On the one piece...probably a minor point, but I'd be a bit worried about sand moving under the weight of the LR...probably not likely, but thought I'd throw it out there.

I also think you'll get more even diffusion into the plenum with the flat top IMO.

MikeS

 

[Katchupoy]

I think doing it along the longer side of the tank is better than the shorter one...

Mojo... why 3 chambers?

 

[Katchupoy]

ok... here is one diagram taken from a 25 gallon hi dimensions...

 

[RedEyeReef]

Maybe we aren’t there yet in this discussion but I keep getting hung up on the though of my existing reef and not being very feasible to drill the bottom. So how do I pump this gunk from the Plenum? I maybe jumping the gun here but for someone to test one or more of the above drawings ( I really like what I see) the gunk needs to get out.

Hey Mojo, weren’t we at the Spokane meeting talking about you already ripping your 1000 apart and re-aquascaping it? I thought that was a 1/4ly thing for you anyways??? LOL.

 

[Katchupoy]

Its like an undergravel filter where there is a flex tube coming out from the plenum.... in this way... you dont have to drill your tank.. and risking of leaking it...

 

[DonW]

Don

Don we are trying to design the system so that waste/detritus is processed and not just removed. On your idea I am not sure if I got the concept, can you go into a bit more detail??
mike

Mike,
What I am having a hard time with is longevity. If the dsb is draining into a funnel area it will slowly gum up the funnel. Kind of like the build-up in your cars radiator eventually stopping all flow. Rolling snowball effect. We need a way to back flush the funnel area.

Don

 

[Witfull]

cesar,,,i must say,,,great graphics. from looking at both of your diagrams. i am leaning to the modular one...i think it conserves space and gives greater substraight depth evenly through the tank. this may be an advantage once we begin talking about the substraights composition.

 

[Katchupoy]

Thats is the main reason I stayed with modular and 4 inches widths.... The reason for this is the space it will occupy specially if it has a wide span like the diagram above...

But, I am just throwing some ideas here... we can always change it to a better dimension as we go by...

Just waiting some corrections from Mojo... so I can do modification to the diagram...

 

[Katchupoy]

You know what, I've been contemplating the same concept on Barebottom tanks. So it will slide to a location where I want it so it can easily siphon.

 

[mojoreef]

Ok were rocking.
First thing. I dont want the sand to be in the Vee, then it will clog for sure as Don states. the concet of the vee was to create an anaerobic zone, but making it slopped will help the detritus slide down. So we need to put some eggcrate on the top, just as we had with ceasars first drawing.
Ceasar the total height of the plenum should be 2 inches, that includes the eggcrate.
Mike the plenum will be flat on the top, the eggcrate and then the screening will do that. My idea on the was to have the top of the vee filled with holes to allow better capture of particles. I think the overall suction would be even enouogh to pull detritus and waste evenly through the flat top of the eggcrate and screen.

Don Does the eggrate/screen going flat over the Vee help eliminate what you are refering to. Remember thier will be no growth below in those zones, so the only thing to look at would be organics and particulate waste??

Wit/Ceasar. I think once designed folk could run it in a number of ways, from full system plenum to just a think layer pending on what they can do. On the modules I dont have a problem thier, but I think 4 inches is way to small, maybe one fot or something?? what do you think??

RedEyeReef

Hey Mojo, weren’t we at the Spokane meeting talking about you already ripping your 1000 apart and re-aquascaping it? I thought that was a 1/4ly thing for you anyways??? LOL

Hey I am not that bad, lol Once a year maybe lol. Hey think about it though, I was able to do it no problem, now could you do that with you dsb????? hehehehe.


Mike

 

[zeltar]

Great ideas people. I will be setting up a 120 after I get it from John at IAP and am very interested in this setup. I would like to know some ideas on how it would actually get plumbed in a tank.

Keep the think tank flowing......

 

[MikeS]

I'm moving the contents of my 55 into a 75 as soon as I can afford it, and I too am very interested in the system...

lots of good ideas here!

Mike

 

[Scooterman]

There sure is a lot of thinking going on here!

 

[Katchupoy]

Hi Mike,

I did what you told me and made it 2 inches overall height.
But I am worried about the pitch of the collector... It might not be high enough for the debris to crawl to the center.

will post the image later.

 

[MikeS]

Hi Mike,

I did what you told me and made it 2 inches overall height.
But I am worried about the pitch of the collector... It might not be high enough for the debris to crawl to the center.

will post the image later.

Hmmm...good point....

That point actually makes mojo's 3 collection point design perhaps a better option...

MikeS

 

[Katchupoy]

Ok here is the updated diagram with 2" overall height including the eggcrate.

 

[Katchupoy]

Mike S,

Still the same... even if you have the three collection point but still using the same big collector like the previous mojo's image.... it will still suffer the same pitch results results.

Thats why I created the 4" module.... but if this is too small... what is the best dimension incorporating mojo's idea.



I will create a 12" module later...

 

[MikeS]

Ok...I see....you feel the waste will "stall" on the plenum and not reach the collection points at all....right?

Good point.

I wonder if this matters as much....with good enough suction during draw off, hopefully the watse will be drawn to the collection point (points)....

But then again...I also think you don't want real agressive draw-off in this system, to keep the sand bed stable....\

hmmm...

sorry, thinking out loud....


Mike

 

[MikeS]

Ok....thinking out loud again....

This kinda brings me back to NaH2O's suggestion about recirculation within the plenum...

If stalling could be a problem, then perhaps a gentle backflushing of the system just prior to extraction could help...

This may not remove all the gunk, but it would certainly help...

MikeS