any info on lagoon setups?

[reedman]

Hey all,

I am thinking about getting back into the coral fun, but I don't want to do SPS again (been there, done that...red bugs, strange pathogens, mysterious deaths, etc.). I am considering a lagoon type biotope with a sarcophyton (yellow fiji leather) as the centerpiece and maybe a few other softies, but not many. Any links to good info on setting up a lagoon style tank? I plan on middle flow, and reasonable light (probably VHO or T5) and a sand bottom. Not really planning on more fish or critters of any kind, just redoing the rockwork a little and some new corals. This would not be a new setup, but rather a conversion of my former SPS setup so everything is cycled and up to snuff to keep SPS.

Any info you can give would be great.


Thanks,
-Reed

 

[iwantone]

I have a lagoon style tank. You still need good flow, but not intense. The key is alternating current like from a sea swirl or wavey sea. The nice thing is you can add fish as long as you don't go crazy. My current tank is a 120 gallon cube that is 30 inches high with a tunze on an oscillator (kind of like the wavey sea device). It is also under skimmed with a Urchin Pro hooked up to a mag 3 pump. My lighting is a bit of an overkill, but everything would do fine with a 250 watt DE 14k phoenix bulb in the middle.
Lagoons have clams, anemones, montipora, macro algae, a ton of softies as well as montis, birdnest and some of the thick branched hardy staghorn acropora. I love my tank and the colors and motion it has. The fiji yellow leather needs cooler temps (like 78 degrees). Preferably get it from a fellow reefer as the wild ones have a high mortality rate. If your tank is higher than 20 inches would not use VHO only. I have had similar tanks with only VHOs with great color and amazing ricordia growth, but over 18-20 inches I think it gets hard without a halide. My tank is a deep sand bed with a plenulum (check out the GARF.org page for how to build)

 

[piercho]

I kept a 65G lagoonal until August this year (6 years running). I kept stony coral, arborescent gorgonians, clams, and zoos. Also 4 specie of seagrass - Turtle grass (failed - 3 months), Manatee grass, Star grass, and Shoal grass. Also sand-associated algae like Halimeda, Udotea, Penicilius. Also M. doorensis anemone (failed - 18 months), Cerianthus anemone, and fanworms that built their tubes in sand.

Not sure what experience or opinions you looking for? I guess the main decision is substrate depth and composition. I used deep sugar-fine sand for the LTA but that is not appropriate for some burrowing fish like Jawfish which need mixed composition sand. When I had the LTA, my Maroon anemonefish also fanned sand all over the tank which was a drag. Pushing high flow rates tended to push the sand to one end, the middle, etc so some sand was 6" deep and some was less than 3". You may want to use gravel over a plenum (Jaubert), which would work better for high water flow rates.

Otherwise I found I liked using as little rock a possible. Give the fish room to swim, gorgos and grass room to wave around, nicer than looking at pile of rock. For grass shoal grass (Halodule) pretty easy and durable, if you want grass. Want pics?

 

[reedman]

Thanks for the inputs folks. This is better info than I expected. I never hear about people with lagoon tanks so I was beginning to wonder.

If you have pics please post them.

The fiji yellow leather needs cooler temps (like 78 degrees). Preferably get it from a fellow reefer as the wild ones have a high mortality rate.

I already have this coral and it is doing great in my tank with only low voltage 50W track lighting (halogens). Yes, I know people will crucify me for this, but you know....it has been doing just fine for quite some time now after going from MH, to VHO, to just the track lighting.

Otherwise I found I liked using as little rock a possible. Give the fish room to swim, gorgos and grass room to wave around, nicer than looking at pile of rock. For grass shoal grass (Halodule) pretty easy and durable, if you want grass. Want pics?

I didn't think about the grasses, but that would be a really nice change. Where did you get the grasses from?

Once again, thank you very much for the help.

 

[DonW]

I'm also going to go with a lagoon this time around. Do a google search on reef zonation youll come up with lot of good info. I think lagoons are great but there are misconceptions to what a lagoon/biotope really is. There are many types of lagoons each in its own right being completly different. I also think it a little more important to pay closer attention to zonation with a lagoon in a closed system.

Don

 

[Elmo18]

What I'm thinking is a lagoon should run a DSB...with slightly lower flow. Instead of that high-powered surge actions, the lagoon from my understanding, gets concentrated with more (but not dangerous levels of) nitrates and phosphates, which benefit lagoonal LPS corals like alveoporas and gonioporas.

However, seagrass beds are a different type of biotope all by itself..

I think this system will be fun.

Best,
Ilham

 

[DonW]

What I'm thinking is a lagoon should run a DSB...with slightly lower flow. Instead of that high-powered surge actions, the lagoon from my understanding, gets concentrated with more (but not dangerous levels of) nitrates and phosphates, which benefit lagoonal LPS corals like alveoporas and gonioporas.

However, seagrass beds are a different type of biotope all by itself..

I think this system will be fun.

Best,
Ilham

What Ive figured out so far is that lagoons really dont need any more of the nitrates a P than we already have in our closed systems. Even our low nutrient sps systems have more than the ocean does in its lagoons. I think its more about high turbidity than high docs.


Don

 

[Elmo18]

What Ive figured out so far is that lagoons really dont need any more of the nitrates a P than we already have in our closed systems. Even our low nutrient sps systems have more than the ocean does in its lagoons. I think its more about high turbidity than high docs.


Don

Yes, that is the word I was looking for..Turbid.

Best,
Ilham

 

[Herefishyfishy]

What about dissolved O2 and pH?

 

[DonW]

Here is just a couple examples of water column testing in lagoon areas. As you can see the P and N levels are less than we could hope for in our closed system. So I see no reason to deviate in the way a SPS reef is maintained vs a lagoon. In fact I would say its going to require more work just trying to keep water turbidity higher without allowing the turbidity to turn into docs.
http://www.com.univ-mrs.fr/IRD/atollpol/fnatoll/uknutr.htm

Don

 

[DonW]

What about desolved O2 and PH?

That would take you back to zonation and type of lagoon. Wether its a leaky lagoon, choked lagoon or restricted lagoon.

Don

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Thanks. I read more of your link, man is it packed with great info!

 

[DonW]

Ive got many of them saved but here are some real basic ones.
Just what is a lagoon?

http://www.sms.si.edu/irLspec/Whatsa_lagoon.htm

A little about zonation. Which I think is the most important when your going for a biotope or have a closed enviroment such as ours.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C0125204/about/zonation.htm

Don

 

[Elmo18]

Here's an interesting read from University of Queensland, based on the Cook Islands..

http://eprint.uq.edu.au/archive/00004742/01/CE161.pdf

Best,
Ilham

 

[reedman]

holy cow! Don, Ilham, thank you both for your insight. I will do some more research before I move forward, but if you have more links or other info please post away.

-Reed

 

[DonW]

Are you concidering any greenery? Might want to take a look into Halimeda. Stands to reason it would be a good choice since its the main ingredient in the lagoons floor. I think it looks pretty cool and can be kept under control if potted under the sand.

Don

 

[reedman]

I would definitely do halimeda since I have had some in the past and liked it and I still have some in my live rock so I will cultivate that. I tell you though...it takes a long time for the halimeda to turn to sand in an aquarium.

Don, what are you planning for flow? tunzes? closed loop, something else? Also, are you planning to run MH still? I find the heat to be a pain in the butt with the halides and would like to go with an alternative but still have live coral. I'm leaning toward having the halogen track lights for the glimmer lines and adding my VHOs back on for enough intensity to maintain the corals. What do you think?

Thanks again. Please keep me posted on your tank progress so I can learn from you.

-Reed

 

[DonW]

I would definitely do halimeda since I have had some in the past and liked it and I still have some in my live rock so I will cultivate that. I tell you though...it takes a long time for the halimeda to turn to sand in an aquarium.

Don, what are you planning for flow? tunzes? closed loop, something else? Also, are you planning to run MH still? I find the heat to be a pain in the butt with the halides and would like to go with an alternative but still have live coral. I'm leaning toward having the halogen track lights for the glimmer lines and adding my VHOs back on for enough intensity to maintain the corals. What do you think?

Thanks again. Please keep me posted on your tank progress so I can learn from you.

-Reed

I'm building a zeroedge copy, constantly over flowing tank. 2x 250 hqi halides that hang so can be up higher off the water. Only one pump for the whole system a 3600 dart. There is a thread in the diy section.
I just like halides and have no experience with vho other than actinics. I If can get away with it, I'm going to grow a mangrove right in the display and see if I can get it to grow up the wall by grafting it once it gets large enough.

Don

 

[Reefdaddy1]

Here is one from Michigan, Check this one out.

http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48484

 

[piercho]

Ok, I'm gonna try to attach some picture thingies of my lagoonal setup.

The grass here is Halodule, or Shoal grass. The Halimeda in the foreground is H. opuntia, or brittle Halimeda. In the background there is a little bit of Star grass. I got shoal grass, manatee grass, and tutle grass from Florida Pets and last time I checked they still ship Florida grasses. As you can see I plopped some coral right down on the sand.

Here is an arborescent gorgo, knobby sea rod. You can't see it but the base is attached to a rock pushed into the sand. Gorgos grew well in my lagoonal and were never bothered by contact with the grass blades.

To get a decent picture of this purple willow gorgo I took a top-down. On the sandbed you can see I kept a few Cycloseris under this gorgo as well as other coral. This gorgo grew tall and wide and ate a lot of tank space. I eventually removed all of the rock from that end to allow it room the blow around in the breeze. I don't know if these gorgos are lagoonal but they do well attached to a lttle piece of rock over an open sand bed.
I also prefer MH and these pictures were taken under 250W 6500K. Plants like mermaid's fan and shaving brush need bright light. I've also kept Sargassum and that is a bright light lover and a nice macro for a lagoonal tank. True its brown, but it grows tall from a single hold fast and is easy to control. Seagrass I found will seek the eddy areas of the samdbed where nutrients are presumably higher, even if those are not the brightest-lit areas of the tank.