Better flow: Closed loop or power heads?

[Krish]

Here you go as promised Chris. Just to give you some more ideas which may help some. At one point I wanted to add a bit more flow to my 75 gal, but didn't want anymore powerheads. Also, I didn't want to drill the tank so I decided on an "over the top" closed loop. The problem was, I didn't want to see the white PVC plumbing, the black strainer etc so I had to come up with something so here's what I did.


First I built the suction for the closed loop that went over the tank and under the stand to the pump







Next, I wanted to hide that ugly pipe in the tank so I had this made out of the same blue acrylic I had on my back wall






In the tank











And this shot shows it from a distance. As you can see I have two red arrows. The one on the right points to the hidden suction for the closed loop and the one on the left was a cover I had made to hide my CPR overflow which comes black.








Now for the outputs, I got some pvc, built a little manifold, painted it black so it wouldn't look like turd and added some lockline on the end.







And here it is in the tank under the canopy.






And in the tank







Lastly, where I mounted the pump. Right above the sump.








As mentioned, just another way to do things. Eventually I removed it as it wasn't that necessary. It did add an extra 950 gph, but got by just fine without it. Many people think you need to drill to do a closed loop but you don't have to. There is a certain way you have to set up the suction in order to prime it which I have pictures of if anyone needs it, but very simple.

 

[Aquanaut]

Not too bad. I compromise my love for realistic sand bottom by using a sheet of PLASTEK wall sheet from the local hardware store for the entire bottom of my AGA. Then the medium course Aragonite is only at the perimeter where it is visually apealing and blends well with the white sheet as it passes below the reef. So, I can blast away below the rockwork and limit any if at all the sand storm that happens with deeper substrate. Mine is a bare 1 inch or so. Just enough to keep my Melenarius Wrasse happy...he sleeps in a sand cocoon nightly, so...cute!

 

[Rhodes19]

That's what she said ...I mean! Yea good idea!

LOL!!

 

[Rhodes19]

I just put those up to give you some ideas on what could/can be done with things other then pvc and so on. On this setup yea you would have to drain and drill, but again this is just what this feelow wanted to do when he set up his tank from scratch. Shoot me a link to your setup and I can take a peek.

Mike

Thanks Mike,

Here is my build thread. Let me know what you think.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f70/rhodes19s-180-build-58657/

 

[Rhodes19]

Chris check out Mojo's thread "Building of the Beast". Talk about flow!!! That tank had more outputs than anything I have ever seen!! Amazing build! Too bad he busted a seal on it.


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Thanks krish. I found the thread but all the pictures on the first page were red x'ed out. Beautiful corals thougth.

 

[Rhodes19]

Here you go as promised Chris. Just to give you some more ideas which may help some. At one point I wanted to add a bit more flow to my 75 gal, but didn't want anymore powerheads. Also, I didn't want to drill the tank so I decided on an "over the top" closed loop. The problem was, I didn't want to see the white PVC plumbing, the black strainer etc so I had to come up with something so here's what I did.


First I built the suction for the closed loop that went over the tank and under the stand to the pump







Next, I wanted to hide that ugly pipe in the tank so I had this made out of the same blue acrylic I had on my back wall






In the tank











And this shot shows it from a distance. As you can see I have two red arrows. The one on the right points to the hidden suction for the closed loop and the one on the left was a cover I had made to hide my CPR overflow which comes black.








Now for the outputs, I got some pvc, built a little manifold, painted it black so it wouldn't look like turd and added some lockline on the end.







And here it is in the tank under the canopy.






And in the tank







Lastly, where I mounted the pump. Right above the sump.








As mentioned, just another way to do things. Eventually I removed it as it wasn't that necessary. It did add an extra 950 gph, but got by just fine without it. Many people think you need to drill to do a closed loop but you don't have to. There is a certain way you have to set up the suction in order to prime it which I have pictures of if anyone needs it, but very simple.

Thanks for the pictures krish, I appreciate it. I like how you made it and it doesn't look obtrusive. I like how you made the acrylic cover/corners. They blend in nicely; I painted the back of my tank black so that's the color I'll have to go with. Getting the over the back cl primed shouldn't be too bad. I made a pvc pipe overflow and put some valves on the top, sucked out the air and then closed the air valve. Never used it thought, the pump pushed more water than the pvc could handle.

 

[Krish]

Thanks for the pictures krish, I appreciate it. I like how you made it and it doesn't look obtrusive. I like how you made the acrylic cover/corners. They blend in nicely; I painted the back of my tank black so that's the color I'll have to go with. Getting the over the back cl primed shouldn't be too bad. I made a pvc pipe overflow and put some valves on the top, sucked out the air and then closed the air valve. Never used it thought, the pump pushed more water than the pvc could handle.

No problem man. Just wanted to give you as many ideas as I could.


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[mojoreef]

Here is my build thread. Let me know what you think.

Yea it could done no problem. Well not no problem, but with a little sweat from Franky you could build a real tight set up for a closed loop if that was the route you wanted to go. To design it, it would be best to have a bit of a conversation about what you wanted, so set up a chat session or something similar and we can work out the details. I suggested a chat , that way anyone that wants to follow along can do so.

take care

Mike

 

[Rhodes19]

No problem man. Just wanted to give you as many ideas as I could.


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LOL, Oh you have.

 

[Rhodes19]

Yea it could done no problem. Well not no problem, but with a little sweat from Franky you could build a real tight set up for a closed loop if that was the route you wanted to go. To design it, it would be best to have a bit of a conversation about what you wanted, so set up a chat session or something similar and we can work out the details. I suggested a chat , that way anyone that wants to follow along can do so.

take care

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks, I'd love to make Frankie sweat. What do I need to do to set up a chat session? I've never done a chat session before.

Chris

 

[mojoreef]

Just pick a time and we can meet in chat.

Mike

 

[Krish]

What do I need to do to set up a chat session? I've never done a chat session before.

Chris

You click on either of these two tabs Chris and you are there. That's it!!

 

[Rhodes19]

Cool beans guys, thanks. Sunday may be the only time I can get a chance to chat, today and tomorrow are going to be busy for me. I'll check with Frankie and see if he has some time on Sunday as well seeing as he will be helping me fabricate what I need. Probably Sunday evening our time, afternoon your time.

 

[mojoreef]

Sure just let me know

Mike

 

[Rhodes19]

How would 4 pm, EST work for everyone? We can do it latter if need be.

 

[akunochi]

I'll try to make it in for that.

Personal thought are that closed loops are an an antiquated tool IF you can afford the latest and greatest PH IE Vortechs.

The Vortechs will provide lower heat, lower power consumption and high flow. I can write more....but I;m kinda drunk. I'll get back to you....tomorrow.

 

[mojoreef]

Personal thought are that closed loops are an an antiquated tool IF you can afford the latest and greatest PH IE Vortechs.

Holy Cow!! Thats the first time I ever looked up the cost of one of those!! Nicest Powerhead I have ever seen, but the price is a little tough, well at least for me. Seth I dont see what you mean, I would imagine that the PH would work in some tanks but anything of size and you are going to have to buy multiple PH's just to get the coverage. The concept of a closed loop is to provide flow rom multiple sources to multiple areas, no matter how great a PH is, the water only comes from one direction and only flowsthat way. WIth a closed loop you can have as man outputs as you want. In most folks tanks they have pretty etencive rock work an if flow is just coming from one point your goig to have way to many dead spots. With a closed loop you can take care of those.

Rhodes sounds good

Mike

 

[akunochi]

Normally I would agree with you, but with the above mentioned powerhead and now the MP60 you can cover a 6'tank with 2. Some people like more, but you can keep a tank with 2 and have success. The secret lies in the massive undertow and wide current leaving the power head. Also in the ability to have the pump work together wirelessly in either sync or anti-sync modes. This as you know would create really random currents. (reef crest mode)

So as far as feeding the dead spots I think in all be the most elaborate rock work the randomness created by the pumps will force water into it.

Also for the power consumption of a big pump for a 6-8' tank (barracuda/hammerhead) I could run 3-4 power heads and get 4x the flow almost into the tank with less heat. (granted I just spent 4x as much too though)

 

[Krish]

Do these powerheads rotate like a sea swirl? If not how do you get random flow from them if they point in one direction only? Or ...Do you mean from you alternating the flow coming from the two separate powerheads between one another? If so, that's been around forever with the Tunze Streams which give a broad pattern as well. Depending on tank dimensions and rockwork (which plays a major role) I'd have to agree with mojo on the closed loop being a better option (although I do love powerheads don't get me wrong as they have worked wonderfully for me), but you aren't limited to your outputs but rather can split them up in as much outputs as you like, point your flow precisely down to the millimeter using lockline, can create wide flow patterns using various types of nozzles and can also create alternating flow patterns using an oceans motions or motorized ball valve or something similar. You can also fine tune your flow a bit better by putting ball valves on certain outputs as well for those that want to mix all types of corals together that don't belong together where some can get not as much flow in certain areas where it is preferred and the others could get more. With powerheads you can't do this. It is either or. You go with the two powerhead option you mentioned and you only have two outputs that can only be altered in position and not by much by direction. Closed loop you have no limits to outputs or direction. Price is much cheaper too. PVC pipe is as cheap as it comes. I turned 4 outputs in one tank into 8 outputs that could all independently be adjusted just by adding in a few "Y" adaptors and a bit of plumbing. Hardly any cost. Even adding another pump in the mix to double it up still was not as costly.

Just my thoughts.

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[akunochi]

No I meant by teh collisions. Say i have 2 of them 1 set in master and 1 set in anti sync slave. Running in reef crest mode at 70%. The maximum a single powerhead will spin up to is 70% of the power (about 3000GPH). Now while the master is ramping up the slave ramps down. However with reef crest it is a very rapid change and a power level will be randomly selected from 0% to in this case 70%. At time both might be at 70 or 60/70 or 10/10 or 10/70 or 25/45 etc etc etc and it changes constantly. This is true random flow by creating a near infinite number of impact points between the two flows.

Also the Tunze streams have nothing on the wide pattern of a Vortech. The Tunze in comparison really are a stream.

Sure you could add another pump...which is more heat and more recurring cost to power it...pumps are hot probably going to need to add a chiller. etc etc.

I like the powerheads because it is a one time up front cost with minimal operational costs. VS the pumps where the cost comes in electrical consumption...and heat...and noise.