bio balls

[sryder]

i am returning to the hobby after some years and it seems the biggest new thing is live rock and skimming. years ago it was wet drys and bioballs or ceramic thingies for the proper removal of ammonia and nitrites to an exeptable level of nitrates.what i hear people say now is to remove the bioballs and just use the live rock as the main biological filter and you will never, ( never used loosely) have a problem with nitrates. I believe with the cycle it is ammonia,nitrite removal and then nitrates. bioballs will give you the bacteria to remove the ammonia and the nitrites and leaving you with the nitrates. the question is if the bioballs breakdown the ammonia and nitrites wouldnt you keep them in the sump and let the live rock in the main tank breakdown the nitrates to nitrogen? and if not, why not?

 

[orion76]

No because the bioballs become a detritus/nutrient trap and the bacteria living in them will eventually add to the bioload of your tank.

Skimming organics before decomposition in combination with liverock will handle ammonia and nitrite with ease. It would be very unusual to be able to detect those in a healthy reef tank.

 

[NaH2O]

IMO, skimming is very important. It will remove a lot of the nasty dissolved organic compounds from the water, and aid in getting water quality desired for a reef tank. As mentioned, bioballs have a tendancy to lead to a nitrate problem. Live rock provides the necessary bacterial populations to process the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Here is a quote from mojoreef about the same topic:

It wouldnt even have to be bioballs in thier to create the nitrate problem. The concept is that th highly oxygenated water passing over the multi-surfaced bioball allows for the creation of nitrifing bacteria (as mentioned above) this type of system works well for a FO system as fish can handle Nitrates. Corals on the other hand cannot. It wouldnt matter what you put in thier in its place it would have the same effect as the same enviroment is being created (highly airated water over a surface) bioballs are just used becuase they have so much exposed surface area..
Dont worry about nitrifing bacteria in your tank, thiers plenty. They cover every surface of your tank, if you go BB or not you will have enough. Having to rince them is to much work IMHO. I would just leave the area open and use it for equipment.

Hope this helps!

 

[sryder]

so i should be able to remove the bioballs and let the live rock within the tank become the filter without a problem. i am not sure I have enough. I have a 140 gallon oceanic and sump(new) i have about 60 lbs of base rock from an old aquarium and about 35 lbs of fiji live rock. I have a berlin classic skimmer. the tank is plumbed and drilled with overflows. is this enough rock for filtration at this point. i am working with a limited budget and eventually will add more live rock. or would it be better to leave in the bio balls and remove them gradully as i add the rock to the system. i definetly do not want nitrates as i plan to keep corals.

 

[wrightme43]

Gradually is the way to go. Slow and steady wins. Take your time, and as a added benifit cats really like bioballs as toys. LOL Steve

 

[orion76]

Definitely take it slowly, just yanking the bioballs will upset the balance of your system.

 

[sryder]

thanks, my tank is just starting to cycle so could i just pull them out now?

 

[plack]

I think if your tank is brand new and nothing is in it yet then pull the bio balls and add a little live rock (cured) in the area you took the bio-balls out of also alot of us put floss in our sumps right atop where the water flows onto the now live rock area of a wet dry sump if you have a cyled tank with things already in it then this could cause a sudden change but if its empty and your starting over from scratch it should be fine to do it now and you should only need a few pounds of live rock cured but does not have to be purple as there won't be any light on it in the sump but it will help for filtration I just added my wet dry sump it works great hope that helps

 

[orion76]

If your tank is not established yet then you can simply remove it all.

 

[sryder]

instead of using the live rock can i use what was once live rock or base rock in the sump?

 

[stallion99]

plack--- I'm interested in your comment about... "alot of us put floss in our sumps right atop where the water flows onto the now live rock area of a wet dry sump if you have a cyled tank with things already in it then this could cause a sudden change but if its empty and your starting over from scratch it should be fine to do it now and you should only need a few pounds of live rock cured but does not have to be purple as there won't be any light on it in the sump but it will help for filtration"

I have a tank setup for 4 weeks now and my cycle is almost complete (levels down to 0). I purchased a AquaC Protein Skimmer and it will come in early next week... I did not follow what you where saying totally. i do not have sump setup on my tank... I want to be able to add the Protein Skimmer without causing any sudden changes in my tank....

Thanks!

 

[plack]

i am returning to the hobby after some years and it seems the biggest new thing is live rock and skimming. years ago it was wet drys and bioballs or ceramic thingies for the proper removal of ammonia and nitrites to an exeptable level of nitrates.what i hear people say now is to remove the bioballs and just use the live rock as the main biological filter and you will never, ( never used loosely) have a problem with nitrates. I believe with the cycle it is ammonia,nitrite removal and then nitrates. bioballs will give you the bacteria to remove the ammonia and the nitrites and leaving you with the nitrates. the question is if the bioballs breakdown the ammonia and nitrites wouldnt you keep them in the sump and let the live rock in the main tank breakdown the nitrates to nitrogen? and if not, why not?

Hi,
Add the protien skimmer in any time as it won't hurt anything
I was guessing that from the above comment you had a sump settup with bio-balls in it and to my knoweledge most sumps that I have seen with those have a chamber that water flows over them my sump is a cpy 194 settup as i described before here is a link to this sump

http://www.cpraquatic.com/products/cyclone.html

Again I thought you had a sump with bio balls in it. As they would have had bacteria in them if left in a sump and removing all of that suddenly when you have fish or corals in th tank could harm some of them but as you stated your tank is empty of animals so if you had the bio balls now seemed the time to remove them, I wonder do you have bio balls then ? Were you planning on adding them ? If you have them could you tell me what they are in ?

I hope I answered your question I don't want to confuse you I hope I did not

 

[NaH2O]

sryder - the base rock would be fine, IMO. It will eventually get populated with the bacteria and become live.

 

[sryder]

yes, my sump is an oceanic looks like a thirty gallon and the return hoses enter into a filter pad with a drip tray. then down through the bio ball chamber. i have a berlin classic in the sump with a little giant 875 gph pump feeding the skimmer and returns. i removed half of the bioballs since i do have three chromis in the tank and didnt want to hammer them too hard. I also got a brown algae bloom that seems to be slowing down. i was wondering if my lights are being left on too long. i am starting to see more bright green algae as the brown algae slows down. is this good? I have two 96 watt actinics on for fourteen hours a day two 150 watt mh on for around ten hours per day, and three one watt leds for moon light. Curious as to what the difference is having rock in the sump as to having rock in the tank itself. Isnt it using the same water as long as you have good flow through the rock wouldnt it work in the same manner?

 

[orion76]

If you do not have any photosynthetic livestock and you are having algae issues then I would leave your lights off at this time. At the most I would only run one of your actinics.

Right now your lights are only benefitting the algae.

 

[LakeEd]

What I've found... when a new tank is cycling, its perfectly normal to go thru the "Brown diatom algae" stage... which is what its sounding like you're having right now. Its just part of setting up a tank... not to worry.

As for your lighting, personally I try to keep my photo period to a 12 hour on, 12 hour off type thang. I have my Actenic's on a 11:30.... MH's on at 12:30... then MH's off at 10:00... with Actenic's off at 11:00. I don't believe the Moon lights effect things tooo much, they are more for OUR benifit... allowing us to see into our tanks, when its "night-time" for everyone.

 

[LakeEd]

Almost forgot....

As for your Bio-Balls. I had a 75, that had the built-in bio-filter inside the tank. My nitr"A"te levels consistantly stayed about 50. I did like you are now... removed about 1/2 of the bio-balls one week... then another 1/2 a week later... then the last 1/4 a week after that. My system had no ill effects (I did have about 80lbs of Live Rock in there at this time). My nitr"A"te levels dropped down to under 5, by a week after removing the last of the bio-balls.

 

[plack]

1/2 the bio balls gone the rest to come out later sounds good you want to add more live rock as funds permit yea thats the way I did it too brown-green algae I don't know could be nothing to worry about but I don't know I do wonder if a Lawnmower blenny is in the plans for a 120 gallon tank as I just got one and he loves to munch algae off rocks just a thought I don't want to increase your bio load by adding fish unless you already planned to get one in wich case when you get him it may help

 

[sryder]

i think i will let the tank finish through the cycle and see about adding the blenny and some snails. someone said to turn the lights off wouldnt I want them on some to help the purple coraline algae to grow.

 

[orion76]

i think i will let the tank finish through the cycle and see about adding the blenny and some snails. someone said to turn the lights off wouldnt I want them on some to help the purple coraline algae to grow.

A single actinic is more than plenty for your coraline algae, no need to run all the lights at this time.