Calcium reactor media!!!!!!

[ROWAUSA]

Deltec reactor wooo's

I am personally not liking the Rowa C+ too much because when you crank up the co2 on it the 'inert' part of the media disolves and blows a very cloudy effluent into my tank and makes the water look very cloudy, I am up for something new for sure.

Sorry for not catching this sooner, I've been on vacation. ROWAlith C+ does not have an "inert" part. Both the light colored and dark colored particles are both calcium based. The dark stuff is harder and is mined from a coral bed that is mixed with carbon, which is why it's harder then the white stuff.

If you are "cranking up the CO2", then yes it would dissolve quickly and cause clouding. ROWAlith C+ is designed to be used in the Deltec reactors. They control the output so you measure the dKH of the output water. You should have about 40 dKH. Now I know this is higher then most test kits will measure, but it makes it easy to adjust and no electronic pH controller is required. We don't like mixing electronics and saltwater.

ROWAlith C+ does require a fluidized reactor to work properly. If you are getting cloudy water from it, it is not fluidizing properly.

 

[fishermann]

I am running a Deltec reactor. The instruction sheet says to just run enough water flow so the surface of the media just shimmers on the surface, and not to fluidize the media so much that it bounces around. At the BBQ I noticed Mike run his Deltec with the Media well fluidized and bouncing around alot in the chamber and the water was cloudy in the reactor. I have been running my Deltec for 4 mos. now and have not seen the media level drop at all in the reactor chamber. How often are you supposed to have to replace media?

 

[big t]

Thanks for the reply Rowausa, I have not given up on the media yet. I am having a lot of problems w/ my regulater hence the cranking up the c02. I am hoping to have that fixed soon. So is it true that the media shoud barely be fluidised? I have mine rolling in there pretty good.

 

[mojoreef]

Great to see you jump in on this one Rowausa. I do run a deltec reactor and I have all but given up on it. When running (running being the key word here) with the rowa mix it puts out about the best dkh of any reactor I have ever used and I have used most over the years. On this unit with the ROWAlith C+ I cant get away from the dust. If I run the recirc wide open it clogs the valves and stops, I have now cranked it down to just get the shimmer on the surface and it has reduced the dust, but it still stops dripping effluent after a day or so regardless of it original drip rate. Now I dont know if this is a media or a reacotr design problem but it is one I cant seem to find the answer for.

On the media itself, finding stock seems to be a big problem, with one dealer going from being the direct distributor to not carring it any more. Myself I bought a few hundred pounds a few years ago, but alot of folks are having trouble getting it. That and the cost seem a tad tough to. Is thier anything in the future to make it a little more affordable??


Mike

 

[ROWAUSA]

Do you have to have a Deltec reactor to use it, or can it be used in other fluidized reactors?

As you can read above, no, you don't need a Deltec reactor for run ROWAlith C+. It will work well in any fluidized reactor. The other nice feature about ROWAlith C+ is that the small particles should make it through most pumps without causing any damage. A sponge or filter floss of some type is recommented to help prevent any particles from getting into a pump though. One other thing, yes you do need to rinse it well or you will end up with a cloudy aquarium for a while.

The same goes for ROWAphos. It should be rinsed before use, but not as much as ROWAlith C+. Rinse the heck out of it, that is the ROWAlith C+.

 

[ROWAUSA]

I am running a Deltec reactor. The instruction sheet says to just run enough water flow so the surface of the media just shimmers on the surface, and not to fluidize the media so much that it bounces around. At the BBQ I noticed Mike run his Deltec with the Media well fluidized and bouncing around alot in the chamber and the water was cloudy in the reactor. I have been running my Deltec for 4 mos. now and have not seen the media level drop at all in the reactor chamber. How often are you supposed to have to replace media?

Fishermann, I think you got the directions for ROWAphos when used in a fluidized bed reactor like the FR-509. The reactor for use with ROWAlith C+ is a PF-509 to start. When using ROWAphos in the Deltec reactor, you only want the ROWAphos to look like it is dancing on the surface of the media. Slow flow is what you want there. With the Calcium Reactor and ROWAlith C+, you want that stuff mixing around like a rock tumbler. One way to tell if you got the wrong reactor is the Calcium Reactor has a pump mounted to the lid and the fluidized bed reactor does not.

I hope this clears things up for you.

 

[ROWAUSA]

Thanks for the reply Rowausa, I have not given up on the media yet. I am having a lot of problems w/ my regulater hence the cranking up the c02. I am hoping to have that fixed soon. So is it true that the media shoud barely be fluidised? I have mine rolling in there pretty good.

You are correct about it rolling around pretty good. Now, if you have a Deltec reactor, here is how it works. The pump controls the tumbling action and there is no adjustment for that. On the elbow that is connected to the intake of the pump there are to nipples.(sorry, but did not know what else to call them) One has a short piece of black hose and a small grey valve with a red handle. This it where you connect a water supply to. The other nipple is where you connect the CO2 to. ON the top of the lid, there should be a long black hose connected to a grey cap on a piece of clear tube that goes to the pump. This it the output of the reactor. This is the water that should be checked to high dKH. You only want a very slow stream of water coming out of this line. You control the flow with the valve that you connect the water supply to.

If you rinsed off the ROWAlith C+ well and you have a slow, but steady flow of water to the reactor, you should not get any cloudy water out the product line. That is unless you shake the reactor.

 

[ROWAUSA]

Great to see you jump in on this one Rowausa. I do run a deltec reactor and I have all but given up on it. When running (running being the key word here) with the rowa mix it puts out about the best dkh of any reactor I have ever used and I have used most over the years. On this unit with the ROWAlith C+ I cant get away from the dust. If I run the recirc wide open it clogs the valves and stops, I have now cranked it down to just get the shimmer on the surface and it has reduced the dust, but it still stops dripping effluent after a day or so regardless of it original drip rate. Now I dont know if this is a media or a reacotr design problem but it is one I cant seem to find the answer for.

On the media itself, finding stock seems to be a big problem, with one dealer going from being the direct distributor to not carring it any more. Myself I bought a few hundred pounds a few years ago, but alot of folks are having trouble getting it. That and the cost seem a tad tough to. Is thier anything in the future to make it a little more affordable??


Mike

Mike,

If you tell me the model of Deltec Reactor you are using, I am guessing it's not the PF-509, I might be able to help you out. They are simple if you understand how there were designed. It took me a while to figure them out, but once you get them setup correctly, they work very well. Some of the larger models can be tricky to setup. I am sure some of the grey hair I have has to do with setting up Deltec equipment. Once it works, it's the best.

I am trying to work on getting a better supply of ROWAlith C+, but it's like sand. The cost is in the shipping and most of the distributors don't want to pay for the shipping. I think I will need to work witht the LFS to get them to carry it before I can get the distributors to carry it in quantity.

 

[mojoreef]

Thanks for taking the time. I run the largest unit, a 1000 I believe?? I have had it for about 2 years?? I tried to work it out with deltec but they just said that the inconsistancy from the effluent was no problem, just look at it as a over the day type of thing. Not really the answer I was looking for. What it does is put out a consistant drip of effluent, this lasts for maybe a day and then the effluent stops?? no matter how fast or slow I have the drip rate set.
Its feed by a feed line off my skimmer, great pressure
About 2 bubbles a second of co2
ph in the reactor is 6.25 and below.


Mike

 

[fishermann]

ROWAUSA I am running the PF600 calcium reactor and what you are saying is not what is in the directions for the reactor and I quote " Step 5: Switch on the recirculation pump and open valve [5] slowly to start fluidising the media. Any sudden large surges at this stage can pick up material and carry it to the pump, which may block and then require cleaning down.[ not my phrasing, its what is in the directions]. For best results and reliable operation, without contamination of the pump, the media should not be over fluidiisied with the flow rate adjusted to give a slow steady movement or shimmering of the media. The water within the reactor will go cloudy for a couple days but well clear. If it does not clear then this also suggests that the material is being over fluidised. The fluid inlet valve [4] should now be closed down until an outlet flow of 2-4 drops per second is acheived, [higher for the larger units]." end of quote from the 5 th step on the operating instructions for Deltec PF series fluidised calcium reator. Also I have talked to Doug about this before when chamber water was staying cloudy and I kept turning it down and I thought it was to low, but he assured me you want it to where "the surface is just twinkling "was his words. I am not trying to create an argument here, I am just reading and relaying what the directions say and what Doug has told me for others to use, which in turn might clear up some problems for them,no pun intended.

 

[ROWAUSA]

Wow. You boys play in the big leagues. Those two units, the PF600 and PF1000 are massive units. for systems of over 550 to over 1000 gallons. I have only installed 2 of these units on a very large, over 2000 gallon, system. They are much different then the PF-509 most of use use.

You are correct about being able to control the amount of water each of these units run through the reactor to fluidize the media. The single problem these units have is their startup. Either the first time or say after a power failure. When the pump turns on, a good size bubble of air can be forced through the center tube and into the reactor causing the media to kind of explode in the chamber. When this happens, it is possible that some of the media can be sucked into the intake of the pump. Most of the time it will pass right through. Sometimes it will cause the pump to jam. The nice thing with the aquabee pumps is they can take it. Meaning they can continue powered up without water running through them for sometime. I can't tell you how long that sometime is though.

With that said, that is why they say start the pump with the valve closed and then open it slowly so that you do not get the explosion from an air bubble. Once the water is flowing, you can open the valve so that the media is rolling within the chamber. Now here is a tip. I only fill the chamber just below half way. I have found that this allows for a good roll rate and prevents media from getting sucked into the pump. Yes, you will have to add media more often, but the unit works better in the long run.

So to review, you want enough flow from the pump into the chamber to gently roll the media, but not to the extent that it is blowing all the way up to the top of the chamber. I try to shoot for 1 to 1.5 inches above the resting level. I open the water supply to provide a nice little stream from the effluent line. Not a blast and not a drip. I try to run about 2 bubbles per second depending on demand and remember to just crack the valve from the degassing chamber to return any extra CO2 in the system.

These things were meant to allow the pump to run 24/7 so it would mix the media and not allow it to harden into a block while you switched the CO2 and water on in the evenings when the light were off.

See, like I said, simple when you understand it. I understand your frustration. These units can be tough to get working and I know lots of people that have struggled with them. I hope this info will bring you some new ideas to get them running the way you hoped they would.

 

[mojoreef]

Ok maybe not so simple, hehe.
I have had the unit running at all levels of speed in the mixing chamber, from jusst rolling to full out. The co 2 line is just cracked open a tiny bit, if any. I run 2 bubbles per second,my effluent starts off as a thin solid line but will only go like that for a day, 2 at the tops and then shuts down completely. My media only takes up the lower third of the mixing chamber.
The unit must be adjusted every day or two or it will sht it self down and then the co2 will take the ph into the 5's. Over the last few years I have tried many things to fix the problem. took it apart and cleaned all the parts a few times. Switched the loaction of the valve, from the input to the output. tried it with the co2 recirc line in every position from closed to full open and so on. I get no bubbles going through the unit that disturb the media.
Here are some of my thoughts. The unit uses basically a spill over system to deliver the effluent, roughly a 1/4 ID tube on the side of the degassing chamber, the level of the effluent reaches this hole and then spills over to deliver it to the tank. As time passes the water level on its own drops in the degassing chamber, this is what causes the delivery to be so inconsistant. Now with a constant source of decent pressured input water this does not make sence, thier isnt any leaks so it doesnt loose level from that. the co2 is constantly being pumped into the unit so does the pressure from this drop the fluid level??? Does the melting of the media drop the level through displacement?? All you need is a less then 1/8 of an inch drop and the thing stops working.

On a side note this is a great conersation and maybe it can be used by others or deltec in the future. So I am going to attempt a thread split and start its own thread. Wish me luck, lol


Mike

 

[fishermann]

ROWAUSA my PF600 has a media level indicator on the side of the chamber as to what the level of the media ought to be and it is a good 2/3 of the height of the chamber if not a little more, almost 3/4 the height. I have talked to Doug at Deltec alot on this since it was my first calcium reactor and he was very clear that you did not want to have the media rolling or even slowly churning in the chamber, you just want the surface shimmering as the directions stated above. I suppose of you underfil the chamber you could run the flow to where the media is tumbling, but not if you fill it to the indicated level on the unit. I don't remember seeing a media level indicator on yours Mike, I know your unit is one of the earlier ones and mine is only about 4 mos. old. I wish we could get Doug in on this. Maybe Mike running the media level low has something to do with how steady the water level stays in the degassing chamber. My level stays pretty consistant and always atleast half way up the outlet tube dia level if not just above it. I know that the bleed off little valve makes a great difference as to the water level in the degassing chamber. I am running that little aqua lifter pump on mine, which is what Doug reccomended, it just sits on the reactor on a corner of the top. This is what is driving my unit, not the skimmer.

There seems to be a difference in the old and newer units, since neither of you has mentioned anything about the level indicator being on your chambers and you both running your media levels so low, because as stated my indicator is between 2/3 and 3/4 high on the chamber.

 

[ROWAUSA]

I can't remember if I have seen the level indicator on all the units I have installed. I just fill them about half way. As with everything in this industry, opinion and translation go hand in hand. I know the person that wrote the directions. They are a combination of translation from the German text and use of the product. ROWAlith C+ is meant to be suspended in the water column. If it is not kept moving, you could end up with a block of media in the bottom of the reactor.

What has worked for me, and let me repeat, worked for me, is filling the unit half full and opening the valve on the pump so the media is mixing in a steady flow. Yes, on the 600 and 1000 there will be areas that don't move all the time, but in a several hour period, it all gets mixed.

When it comes to the water supply, I do one of two things. If the system is equipped with a water make-up system, I connect the line to the reactor. Now I know what you are thinking, it is not getting water all the time, but it does get enough, because the amount of water that goes through the reactor is less then what would be provided by the water make-up system if it was just running not connected to anything. This way it runs longer. You make ask why I do this? Clean water that does not clog up that little valve. I have had more problems with those little valves on reactors and skimmers. They clog easily. The other way I supply water to the reactor is via the sump return pump.

For those of you having trouble with the effluent water flow, check that little grey valve. The theory that applies here is what goes in must come out.

 

[mojoreef]

Well I got a call from Saxby today and apperantly Deltec has made a bunch of mods to my skimmer model. As in the new one is alot different then the one I bought. Anyway we had to move the water in to where the co2 input was and then move the co2 input to where the co2 recirc line was and then disconnect the recirc line completely.

I made the mods so we shall see how they play out.



MIke

 

[reedman]

Sounds like a game of twister Mike...you sure they aren't just pulling your leg

 

[fishermann]

My unit came with a inline filter screwed onto the little grey inlet valve and you take it off and clean it every now and then in viniger, I think I've had to do it once so far when the effluent drip slowed on the outlet hose. You can buy these from Deltec because I bought a spare one to change out while I clean the other one. The aqua lifter pump which is what I use to supply the unit with water from the sump has a filter for it also.

I am glad your way works for you, I was just stating with that quote above what the instructions that came with my unit and Doug from Deltec says to do. I do crank the pump valve open so the media churns up for a minute or so every couple of weeks so it doesn't compact and haven't seen any signs of it doing so yet.

Hope your mods work for you Mike, I don't know if this inline filter Deltec has would help your problem or not, probably couldn't hurt.

 

[ROWAUSA]

Those are interesting mods. I will wait to see how they work. Might just give Mr. Saxby a call myself to discuss.

 

[chris&barb]

is there another part of this thread or did it end?
i cant seem to get my pf600 to give the dkh of 35 to 40,
im using a PH controler and it set at 6.20 and it's just making mad dust.
and no im not using rowalith(funny i live 20min. away from Doug and still cant seem to get it)

 

[big t]

Well there was some talk in another thread and then ROwa started this thread based on a statement I Made. Anyway are you using arm? If so I don't think that you will get it all that hi. If you are using arm you don't really want the ph much below 6.5 anyway.

I personally figured out how to get my reactor that I made dialed in by making some plumbing changes, and it now works like a champ. I am not sure what dkh the output is as I havn't tested it so it isn't dialed in exactly. I guess what I mean is that it will run continuasly for more then a day w/ out getting clogged. It has been running for about 3 weeks w/ no tweeks.