canister filter

[Elivia]

i have a canister filter for my 240 ltr tank. What is the best way to layer the filter products to get maximum filtering results?

I currently use white filter sponge, bio balls, ceramic tubes.

I am about to run some phosphate remover and carbon in mesh bags for about 2 weeks as well. (not mixed together though. they will be in seperate filter bags)

Oh and if this helps this is whats in my tank at the moment - live rock, gravel, 2 clownfish, 1 x damsel and i green torch coral. Also have a protein skimmer and chiller.

Thanks

 

[thatguy559]

i would get rid of the filter pads/sponges unless you want to clean this thing every 2 weeks. its just going to clog up and become a nitrate factory. the ceramic rings are cool. ditch the bio balls. or just get rid of the whole thing and use a sump with some filter socks and a skimmer

gravel? not sand?

 

[Krish]

My personal opinion on canister filters are they are probably best used for running carbon in them and nothing more (My personal opinion now). When you get into all the filter pads, bio-balls etc you are dealing with aerobic bacteria who's end product is nothing but nitrates. As suggested, unless you are willing to clean those pads regularily, the waste it traps will only break down and work against you if left too long. 2 weeks as suggested is a long time IMO. I would clean them every 2-3 days max (might just be me though). I go so far as to even remove all the sponges/prefilter sponges off of any pumps because they will work the same way. You want to remove waste before it has a chance to work against you. The bio-balls only act as surface area for aerobic bacteria to colonize and grow, but this can be done on your liverock so no point really using them as your rock should be able to do all the work for you. Ceramic tubes...Same thing. The benefit you get from your live rock is it supports both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria which the other filter media can't so IMO, I would personally ditch the bio-balls,ceramic tubes and sponges if you aren't up to cleaning them religiously, and maybe just use the filter to run carbon etc.

Just my personal opinion...Not gospel as there are many other ways to do things.

 

[Elivia]

thanks. just one thing though. it seems that my canister filter is acting as my biological filter. the last time i cleaned it out - amonia and nitrites went sky high. i cleaned it out in saltwater and everything and lightly as i did not want to disturb too much good bacteria. so now i am scared that if i take away my canister is will cause my water levels to crash

 

[Elivia]

alos... if i was to change filter methods, it would not be for a while as low cash flow. i would have to save for that one. so for now i will have to utilise my canister filter the best way i can so whats the best way to layer my filter media in my canister?

Is it expensive for sump set-ups. i have limited space under my fish tank cabinet...

Thanks guys. any info is a great help!

 

[Elivia]

My personal opinion on canister filters are they are probably best used for running carbon in them and nothing more (My personal opinion now). When you get into all the filter pads, bio-balls etc you are dealing with aerobic bacteria who's end product is nothing but nitrates. As suggested, unless you are willing to clean those pads regularily, the waste it traps will only break down and work against you if left too long. 2 weeks as suggested is a long time IMO. I would clean them every 2-3 days max (might just be me though). I go so far as to even remove all the sponges/prefilter sponges off of any pumps because they will work the same way. You want to remove waste before it has a chance to work against you. The bio-balls only act as surface area for aerobic bacteria to colonize and grow, but this can be done on your liverock so no point really using them as your rock should be able to do all the work for you. Ceramic tubes...Same thing. The benefit you get from your live rock is it supports both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria which the other filter media can't so IMO, I would personally ditch the bio-balls,ceramic tubes and sponges if you aren't up to cleaning them religiously, and maybe just use the filter to run carbon etc.

Just my personal opinion...Not gospel as there are many other ways to do things.

Yes i have been told canister filters are a nitrate facory! Nitrate is the only thing i ever have problems with! you make a very good point. cleaning it is always a chore. it has to be done but i never thought every day or so. i guess the waste has been working against me for a long time now! how do you keep nitrates down with other filters? Water changes are a must (i know that bit with nitrates :lol how does it all work with a sump? is there a page i can view on this site about sump set-ups and how they work chemically and biologically? does this make sense

 

[khaosinc]

Dending on your canister filter you could just use that as your return pump (I've done just that with an old FX-5 when I was in a pinch), and find any cheap tank that will fit in your cabinet. Even a huge tupperware tub. I still run a couple of canister filters, mostly for carbon as it is simply convienient. A sump is really just an open topped canister filter that has easier access and more water volume. Its a nice place to hide a heater, skimmer, extra rock, and maybe even some macro algea. You can still run the carbon in bags w/ some decent flow on them. A filter sock (if you want to run one) can filter mechanical waste and decent rock will work like bioballs except that you will also have an anarobic area for denitrification (however you spell it.)

 

[iroll253]

A sump and a good skimmer will help with your nitrates.

 

[Krish]

If you plan to ditch the canister filter media, what you will have to do is remove the ceramic tubes and bio-balls slowly over the course of time. If you remove them all one shot you will experience a shock to your system where the biological filtration is concerned. By slowly removing them over time it will allow your tank to adjust and your live rock to pick up the slack.

 

[Scooterman]

How much live rock do you have in your 64 gallon tank?

 

[Elivia]

How much live rock do you have in your 64 gallon tank?

aboout 8kg approximatly

 

[ac7av]

thanks. just one thing though. it seems that my canister filter is acting as my biological filter. the last time i cleaned it out - amonia and nitrites went sky high. i cleaned it out in saltwater and everything and lightly as i did not want to disturb too much good bacteria. so now i am scared that if i take away my canister is will cause my water levels to crash

When you run a canister filter with a marine tank you have three ways you can use it.

1 Fill it from top to bottom with what ever filter media you want to use and clean it only once you notice the flow being reduces. Depending on the tank this could take 6 months or more then a year. It will be your biological filtration device. This sounds like what you’re doing now.

2 Fill it with what ever media you want and clean it often, before it turns into a biological filter. Less then 2 week intervals. This way is best if you have messy fish and lots of floating debris in the water or want to run other media. Say you want to run filter floss and carbon or phosphate absorbing media and so on. This is probably the best way but the most maintenance involved. Its no more work then doing water changes.

3 Use it for running carbon or other like media and change it at the recommended schedule.

I just run carbon in mine now and I have in the past run it as the biological filter. Like anything it requires maintenance. If you understand what you want from it and maintain it accordingly it will serve you well no mater what kind of tank you have, fish only, fish with live rock, or full reef setup. It doesn’t really matter, what matters is the proper maintenance.

This is just my opinion on the canister filter. I say keep using it like your are and get another one for adding carbon or other stuff you would like to ad.

 

[Krish]

1 Fill it from top to bottom with what ever filter media you want to use and clean it only once you notice the flow being reduces. Depending on the tank this could take 6 months or more then a year. It will be your biological filtration device. This sounds like what you’re doing now.

The only thing with using a canister filter for biological filtration is that unless you are able to somehow create anaerobic zones in it for denitrification to take place, your end product (where biological filtration is concerned) will be nothing but nitrates so keep that in mind. You may have a constant battle fighting nitrates and nuicance algae if your live rocks ability to perform denitrification (along with good husbandry, skimming etc) can't keep the extra nitrates produced by the canister filter under control.

Just a few thoughts

 

[ac7av]

The only thing with using a canister filter for biological filtration is that unless you are able to somehow create anaerobic zones in it for denitrification to take place, your end product (where biological filtration is concerned) will be nothing but nitrates so keep that in mind. You may have a constant battle fighting nitrates and nuicance algae if your live rocks ability to perform denitrification (along with good husbandry, skimming etc) can't keep the extra nitrates produced by the canister filter under control.

Just a few thoughts

I know everyone says that and in the short term that may be true. For one, I have used a canister filter for the bio filter in a marine aquarium and had only in the beginning a nitrate problem. After a couple of months everything will stabilize and no algae in the tank at all. I couldn’t even keep snails alive in that tank with out feeding them. When I stopped messing with the filter the nitrate increased and then decreased. This happens in a time frame that most would say to do more water changes because it’s not like cycling a tank. It takes weeks to maybe a month to get over this hump. There is lots of area that has not much water flow in a canister filter as every one has pointed out. That’s why I say to fill it all the way. There is a dead zone behind each plate and in every corner of them that will be able to do some denitrating. With that said I’m sure that canister filters are not all created equally. Maybe this does not work with all of them. It sure sounds like the one we are talking about in this thread is able to work as a full bio filtration unit for the system it is attached to.

 

[DonW]

NO canister filter is going to denitrify. The water going in is carrying to much o2. They will produce nitrates irregardless of what you put in them. The LR may or may not be able to keep up with those being produced by the canister. LR itself produces nitrates BUT its balanced just by nature by its ability to denitrify the proportionate amounts of nitrates.

There is a chance that your rock leans to the more efficient side and can denitrify all the nitrates it produces right along with the canister filter. If this is the case, dont count on it lasting for very long. This is a short lived result and doesnt happen in mature tanks with live rock that is declining.

Don

 

[Krish]

I have to agree totally with Don. Even if it were possible to have an area in your canister filter void of oxygen where anaerobic bacteria could grow it would be so minimal that it wouldn't provide much benefits at all. The process by which aerobic bacteria converts ammonia into nitrite then nitrite into nitrates takes place at a much much quicker rate than anaerobic bacteria can perform denitrification. So what that means is your canister filter will be converting waste into nitrates at such a rapid rate that the little (if any) denitrification that takes place in your canister filter wouldn't be able to keep up with it. This is the same reason why wet/dry filters are called nitrate factories. Their end product is nothing but nitrates.

In any event, every system is different so go with what works best for you. There is no one way to do things in this hobby

 

[Emerald525]

This may be a stupid question but I'm curious why someone would use a canister filter over a sump/refugium system? I had read and thought that a sump with live rock and refugium were the way to go these days.

A used tank I bought had a canister filter and I didn't even think to try using it. They also were using a sump but it was only a 10 gallon for a 150 tank. I just bought a nice sump to replace it with and donated the canister filter.

 

[Krish]

Yea I think canister filters where biological filtration is concerned, were more designed to be used on freshwater aquariums where you had a pretty nice sized bioload to deal with. With freshwater you don't have the same sort of algae issues and nitrates in the 40 to even 60 ppm range is acceptable as the fish can handle it. In reef aquariums any detectable traces of nitrates is fuel for algae to grow and also some corals won't do well where high levels of nitrates are present. In a FO system where some un-wanted algae's are tolerated, wet/dry's and canister filters are wonderful to use. They will make quick work of waste! However on a reef setup, where nitrates can be your worst enemy you tend to steer away from them and allow your liverock to do all the biological filtration as it can do it all on it's own or with the help of an established sand bed. I personally would never use a canister on a reef setup other than to run carbon or polish the water for 24hours after a water change but that is just my opinion

 

[DonW]

This may be a stupid question but I'm curious why someone would use a canister filter over a sump/refugium system? I had read and thought that a sump with live rock and refugium were the way to go these days.

Sort of if done right. For the most part people use these tiny sumps 20 or 30 gallons and divide them into smaller areas. These tiny refugiums dont really do any thing but look pretty and grow a few pods. They are a tiny refuge for life but do nearly nothing in the way of denitrification.
A rufugium that does a good job is one that hold a full 20 or 30 gallons or even more of water pack with chaeto.
LR in a sump realy isnt a good idea. The detritus is trapped in the rock, there just isnt enough flow to keep it clean. When this happens your sump is nothing more than a nitrate factory.
Refugiums do work as both refuges and denitrification but the tiny little section of the sumps we see now days are usually just little nitrate factories due to the slow flow.

Don

 

[Emerald525]

Thanks for the information Don and Krish! I have not had a problem with nitrates at all even with live rock in the sump and typically with water changes we make a point of siphoning out the detritus in the sump so it doesn't build up. The sump we have is about 30 gallons. You're right about the refugium. It was only a very small compartment and actually did not get much to grow in there. I gave up on even using it as it seems the my parameters are pretty steady with running GFO, phosban, and the calcium reactor.