cleaning routines

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liveforphysics said:
Thanks for the explainations guys. So, if i understand correctly:

Krish does it because he has a detritus build up problem, likely boosted a bit by the OCD.

Gabby does it because she preferes the feeling of water to toilet paper ;).

And Wrightme43 does it because the appearence of his livestock deteriorates through out the week for some reason. The waterchange serves as a temporary (week long) correction for this.


I'm very curious about Don W's purpose. Maybe it will shed some more light for me, or possibily give me a reason why I should considder doing a waterchange.

thanks again guys!
Yep you got me man. My corals in one week start to look like yours.
They go all brown in a week.
My tank goes from looking great to looking like junk in one week. I bet if I pull off my skimmer, make a calcium reactor out of yeast, and stop changing water, my system will just thrive.
Here look dude. My tank looks like this, Your tank looks like this. If your happy with that, great!!!! I sure wouldnt be.
Tell you what you make a tank that looks good. I will be apt to try your methods.
 
liveforphysics said:
I'm very curious about Don W's purpose. Maybe it will shed some more light for me, or possibily give me a reason why I should considder doing a waterchange.

thanks again guys!

I guess the question would be why would you NOT do water changes. I personally focus most of my efforts on export and limiting additions.

Don
 
I guess the question would be why would you NOT do water changes. I personally focus most of my efforts on export and limiting additions.

you know, Steve, Krish and I might be crazy but dood you beat us :D ... no wonder we have to worry about the rain in here :D ... just joking dood.
 
krish75 said:
Did you run your canister all the time? I just run mine when I clean and then take it off:)


The canister is the only filter I had. I have been in the process of building a sump and a bigger system. I plan on using my little canister for cleaning.

Tim
 
Yep you got me man. My corals in one week start to look like yours.
They go all brown in a week.
My tank goes from looking great to looking like junk in one week. I bet if I pull off my skimmer, make a calcium reactor out of yeast, and stop changing water, my system will just thrive.
Here look dude. My tank looks like this, Your tank looks like this. If your happy with that, great!!!! I sure wouldnt be.
Tell you what you make a tank that looks good. I will be apt to try your methods.

LoL...I'm with you Steve. My whole problem with Luke's setup is I don't find it all that credible at all to be honest...Even with the photos because photos don't really mean much to me because anyone can fix up a tank before shooting a photo (but that's just me). I'm still trying to understand the statement I've quoted below posted by Luke(which I've asked about but never got a reply) that how is it that a person can go a month or 2 without having to top off. Evaporation alone will cause you to have to top off weekly which IMO is still stretching it. Maybe I'm just missing something here why I asked, but I top off once a day and sometimes even twice. In any event, I don't care what anyone tells me or what photos anyone shows me will EVER make me think keeping a saltwater tank is a walk in the park because it's not. The best setups I've seen do more maitenance than I do even with my OCD! I'm not trying to "knock" anyones methods here because whatever works for them is fine (I've always said that), but personally I don't feel things are always what they appear to be.

I watch the living room tank when I work and do homework.
I watch the bedroom tanks when I'm falling asleep.
I add top off water to a tank when the sump/fuge gets low, generally about every month to 2 months.
Every few days or maybe once a week, but rarely longer than 2 weeks, I WAY over feed the tanks to make sure lots of food settles on the bottom and in the fuge.
When somebody wants cheato, or when I want to get some more store credit at local fish stores, I harvest it
 
The canister is the only filter I had. I have been in the process of building a sump and a bigger system. I plan on using my little canister for cleaning.

Tim

You'll be really happy with the sump man I'm sure:)
 
krish75 said:
My whole problem with Luke's setup is I don't find it all that credible at all to be honest...

Krish,
You have to take a close look at the system basicly FO w/LR. No hot lights and very little flow. No baffles or skimmer in the sump leave lots of room for extra water. He can let the water level fall what appears to be 10+ gallons before it to low. With little lighing to speak of and almost covered tops evap will be very slow. Although I would not recomend this, it is possible. The salinity swings would be crazy.

Don
 
Krish,
You have to take a close look at the system basicly FO w/LR. No hot lights and very little flow. No baffles or skimmer in the sump leave lots of room for extra water. He can let the water level fall what appears to be 10+ gallons before it to low. With little lighing to speak of and almost covered tops evap will be very slow. Although I would not recomend this, it is possible. The salinity swings would be crazy.

Don

Thanks Don...That's all I wanted to know. Never said it wasn't possible, just wanted to know how:)
 
wrightme43 said:
Cause my acros love it. They look better, the clams look better, the anemone looks better. The tank looks better, everything looks better.

When you say things look better after a water change, I understand that to mean that before a water change things are looking worse. I belive thats how the word better works, compairs something against another lesser thing. In this case, I read the lesser thing to be the appearence of the tank before a water change. Maybe I'm way off here.

When I take a picture, not only am I way too lazy to go cleaning the tank (notice I dont even wipe the salt creep off the OUTSIDE of the tank for pictures), but I also think its bullsh%t to take pics with actinic lighting on the tank. Its like this, I could take a white piece of paper, stick it under actinics and take a photo and go wow, look at the pretty blue color in my paper! Or red paper would look purple and so on.


Krish- Didnt mean to leave your question unanswered, sorry I forgot about it. I have 2 sheets of acrilic over each side of the display. They fit snugly around the corners of the tank. Just as a side thing, they are drilled with about 20 small holes each with a pink, blue,or UV purplely LED in each hole. This makes for the best moonlight looking setup I've seen yet. Once I completely finish the super VHO ballast design/R and D work im doing, I am going to build a controler for the LED moon lights to have a proper lunar monthly cycle. But anyways, yes those pieces of acrilic over the tank and fuge really help with evaporation. Not haveing a skimmer is the biggest one though, keep in mind all the air you pump into your skimmer exits 100% saturated with water vapor. This is why I only need to top off every month or two when the level in the fuge/sump drops by about 10gal like Don W said. At this point the specific gravity is 1.026. After adding the 10gal, the specific gravity is 1.023, definately causes some osmotic pressure on the cells. After measureing the salinity on some reefs on the south side of maui, and on the north side of kawaii, I saw larger swings occuring with a daily tide cycle (I only have winter time data, I dont know about summer), so its not something Im worried about.

Don W- "Krish,
You have to take a close look at the system basicly FO w/LR. No hot lights and very little flow. No baffles or skimmer in the sump leave lots of room for extra water. He can let the water level fall what appears to be 10+ gallons before it to low. With little lighing to speak of and almost covered tops evap will be very slow. Although I would not recomend this, it is possible. The salinity swings would be crazy."

This tank actually has 4x110 watt VHO bulbs over driven by my own ballast design, receiveing over 600watts of tuned high frequency energy. Its enough to keep the crocea looking very good. The additional mount of natural phyto-plankton in the water from not skiming may also have an effect on his good health.

When I get home I will take a good pic or two of that whole tank with its regular lightinig on it (actinics off of course). The first pics I posted before were to show how detritus free the rocks and sand stay, not trying to highlight the life in the tanks.

I hope this clears some things up for you guys. Anyone is welcome to stop by and take a peek if you wish, Im sure we would have a good time talking. I'm sorry for comming off as hostile toward you guys, the other forums (engine design related) that I participate in are like war zones compaired to this one. I dont mean to bring that hostility back with me. I will make new efforts to avoid it occuring.

-Luke
 
well whatever works for you works and whatever works for Steve works..
I can't really say anything because Steve's tank is just really really nice and on top of that he takes care of tanks, so he must be doing something really good that probably wouldn't work for you.

I can't believe that a clam who we all know that needs tons tons of light is thriving in so little light, but then again i can be wrong since i'm not keeping one yet, the same for the sps ( i remember you had one) i thought you were suppose to keep them with MH but i guess you don't have to.
Anyways just my opinion
 
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vho, or pc will work for most clams. At least the have for me. Just depends on depth its at, and how often you replace the bulbs.
 
Thanks for the reply Luke...Very interesting...

As for my tank, I just vacuumed my entire sump for about 45 minutes (while scraping the algae) until the algae I took of of the walls clogged the polishing cartridge to the point where the canister which I used to vacuum with, stopped flowing. I hadn't cleaned that it over a week since I did the tank swap. As for the tank, I shut down everything, blew off the rocks with my spare Seio this time, and then after about 10 minutes, I siphoned out (6) 5 gal buckets of tank water through a fine mesh/net and poured the water back in (discarding the detritus etc) I had just done my water change Friday and was surprised at what came off of the rocks today even with well placed 4150 gph of flow. I guess that is just the story of my life and my tank, just as 120 gal per week water change etc. is with Don. I personally can't see anything else working for my tank at all. I would be afraid to see my tank if I did no maintenance in 3-4 weeks even if I had all the flow, chaeto, best skimmer etc money could buy! But maybe that's just me..."Life's great!" as buddy Steve would say, tank looks amazing and we are all happy. God Bless the hobby...Amen:)
 
There is something here that is just flat obvious to me!!!! Luke is not gonna change his ways, and we are not gonna change ours, so what in the heck is the problem. As has been stated a few times in this thread, if it works for you, keep on keepin on!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do resent the notion that people who do water changes are nuts for doing them, it works, why argue!!!! I am outta here.:( :( :(
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There is something here that is just flat obvious to me!!!! Luke is not gonna change his ways, and we are not gonna change ours, so what in the heck is the problem. As has been stated a few times in this thread, if it works for you, keep on keepin on!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do resent the notion that people who do water changes are nuts for doing them, it works, why argue!!!! I am outta here. http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_...0&ppuser=5 06

Whoa Slow down Charlie!(LOL) Nobody's trying to change Luke's ways here(atleast I'm not) and I know I'll never be convinced to change mine. Just a discussion, for the most part, to understand why we do what we do or why others do what they do. Peace...
 
Interesting feedback from everybody lets keep it civil boys and girls.:badgrin: I haven't been on RC in months since I joined this forum because it is a much more pleasant environment.:razz: Lets all remember each of our systems is an "evolving experiment" much of which is dependent not only on science, but our personal make-up. Krish and I are great buddies and yet we are as different as chalk and cheese in our husbandry of our tanks. Truthfully his dilegence does pay dividends over mine in that I do have algae "issues".:confused: Put that in quotes because the algae isn't an issue for me it grows on my overflow and some of my returns but my crabs keep it off my rocks and my corals are thriving. Recently,because of Paul B and because of the costs Krish alluded to I have started going natural (still running my skimmer though). I am changing ten gallons a week on a forty gallon system with fresh salt water. I have no physical filtration in my tank (other than the skimmer) and I have stopped all supplements since I started going natural. One change I have already noted is that my yellow pourites which browned up when I put them in the tank are turning back to yellow and my growth bands on all my SPS are starting to show again so I think I may stay with the luxury of fresh saltwater. I have made no new changes in lighting parameters. Luke (live for physics) I think the credibility of a system with insufficient water changes will be bourne out over time. I think it is fair to say that dilution is the solution is not merely a cliche but a fact of life in successful long term reef keeping. It is a known fact if you don't flush your toliet all the algae growth in the world ain't gonna get rid of the smell.:razz: :eek: I say that not be flippant, but to say waste will acumulate without significant dilution. AS ALWAYS I prefice my comments by saying it also depends on what you have in your tank as to how much waste the organism(s) will tolerate. I am an everything in moderation type of guy I still like to see a few wisps of green hair algae flowing back and forth in my tank (seems to keep some of my inverts happy as well) and I scrape what I don't want which also transfers nutrients out of the system. If you have something to prove regarding "your" methodology perhaps put it into the advanced forum and support it with "credible" research as why your system works.Thats my two cents worth.
 
By the way by "you" I meant the indefinite form meaning anyone that wants to "prove" their point. By the way if you can "prove" that you have the perfect methodolgy you will make a hell of alot of money off the rest of us:badgrin: I noticed when I was on RC they had a thread dedicated to disproving GARF and Sally Jo's "bullet proof reef" To me it was a comedy because duh it works for her! Paul B's Algae trough got rid of thirty five years of algae blooms that he had to contend with it worked him. Keep trying most of all Happy Reefing for whatever reason you do it.:)
 
For right now I'll stick with my 25% weekly water changes. :shock: It's worked for me. I'm also....a sand stirrer. :doubt: Yes, yes I admit it. On water change days I stir my sand. Sometimes I even vac it. :eek:

Mon: clean glass, change filter socks
Tue: n/a
Wed: clean glass, change and wash socks
Thur: water change 260/65g, Clean skimmers
Fri: water change 180/45g, clean glass, change socks
Sat: n/a
Sun: n/a

I tried doing everything on sat/sun but it shortened the harley rides and the GF didn't like that. :D So I decided to spread it out over the week. It actually help me get everything done.
 
Clean skimmer cup and column every few days.
Fill topoff bucket as needed and add new kalk to my reactor when its gets empty.
Clean glass when I feel like taking pictures or it gets hard to see through. =)
20-25% water change every couple weeks
Test water params every month or so, but so far things have been perfect every time.

-Dylan
 
Andrew, that is correct, if it works for you and most important, you enjoy it, keep doing it. If you find it a chore, you may be in the wrong hobby.

Oldsaint, I also stir the substrate. I stir the hell out of it (I don't have a DSB)

Llarian, I have one of those magnet glass cleaners and I move it around whenever I walk near the tank. I also move it through the gravel at the front to stir it up a little to feed the corals.
Yesterday I bought some test kits because I have not tested in years and I was curious. Wow my alk is low. I will have to tweak it, now this means I will have to test for a few weeks.
And also, a little algae means all is well.
Have a great day.
Paul
 

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