Closed Loop and general plumbing

[Xtremedave67]

I was wondering if there is any info about closed loop plumbing?

the 260 I just acquired has 2 outlets and 2 returns for the CL, and wanted to see examples of others or some references to how this is best done.

and I heard mention of a way to get random flow thru a CL system???

along with the concept of plumbing dual sumps....

Thanks for the input

 

[grassi]

You can use an alternating flow device like a schwid for generating some random flow.
One think I suggest you is to rockscape in a way that you can reach the inlets for cleaning, or find a way to reverse the flow for cleaning.
As for dual sump, you mean 1 sump and 1 tank for equipment or refugium?

 

[Xtremedave67]

Yes sorry.....one will be a skimmer/sump, then a refuge. this sytem has 2 sumps, Ill have to get a couple pic.
one ( baffled ) has 2 bulkhead on same end at bottom.....2nd 2 bulk heads at same end again, but one is low corner one is higher above on same side of the end.this sump is built like a tank, 1/2" acrylic and has a (dunno name) inflow from overflows acrylic box with a door to manage filter socks. no baffles in that sump. guestimating baffled one is 50-60 Gallons 2nd with inflow box 40 or near.

 

[grassi]

If you are gonna use one as a refuge I suggest you to put it on top of the sump and not connecting them in line. So you can set up a slower flow through the fuge tank.
I think that if you connect them in line and let the flow go from one side to the other you will have the same fast flow which is good for a sump, but not for a refugium

 

[Xtremedave67]

Here is a couple Pics. the seller didnt have the baffled one installed....guess was a plan to set up a Calc reactor sump that never followed thru

 

[ntswift]

You could check out my build for my 270. I have 4 returns and 2 intakes. All of them 1 1/2" but the returns have been sized down to accommodate 3/4" locklines on each side. Here's the link...I too was thinking of doing two sumps or one sump one refuge but it was just such a logistical nightmare that I decided against it. Plus, it would have just been one more thing in my list of crap to go wrong! haha Good luck!
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55438

Matt

 

[TJL]

If you are gonna use one as a refuge I suggest you to put it on top of the sump and not connecting them in line. So you can set up a slower flow through the fuge tank.
I think that if you connect them in line and let the flow go from one side to the other you will have the same fast flow which is good for a sump, but not for a refugium

I think maybe you mixed up your response, a sump used primarily as a housing for skimmer, filter media and a heater will do fine with a lower flow and IMHO a refugium with macro algaes does much better with a high flow rate. I have approx 950gph going through my 40g fuge loaded with macro's and pods. Algae turf filters also do much better with high flows.

Dave you can still utilize a scwid or similar device to create random flow from the higher gph fuge return line. Or partially collide the water columns of one or more outlets.

Todd

 

[grassi]

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I think maybe you mixed up your response, a sump used primarily as a housing for skimmer, filter media and a heater will do fine with a lower flow and IMHO a refugium with macro algaes does much better with a high flow rate. I have approx 950gph going through my 40g fuge loaded with macro's and pods. Algae turf filters also do much better with high flows.

Dave you can still utilize a scwid or similar device to create random flow from the higher gph fuge return line. Or partially collide the water columns of one or more outlets.

Todd

The more water you put in contact with your filtration (mechanical and chemical) the better it is.
As for macro algae they grow and perform a better filtration in low flow.
Lots of infos on Melev's website. He's the sump guru: http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

 

[TJL]

grassi, have read this before (about 6 or 7 yrs ago) and agree with most of it but not his theory on flow rates as most of these thoughts are now a bit outdated. I have ran Highflow systems for over 20 years now with great success and do not have the typical problems associated with lower flow rates ie; nitrates, phosphates, cyano etc...

Only 10 years ago most literature suggested 3-5x turnover rate and 2-3 watts of light per gallon. So all I'm saying is that information is evolving and in reefkeeping bigger/more is almost always better.

Todd

 

[Scooterman]

You might want to skim through this build, might give you some ideas, PM me if you have questions!

 

[Xtremedave67]

which build?> was there supposed to be a link? LOL or the electrical links in your signature?

 

[grassi]

grassi, have read this before (about 6 or 7 yrs ago) and agree with most of it but not his theory on flow rates as most of these thoughts are now a bit outdated. I have ran Highflow systems for over 20 years now with great success and do not have the typical problems associated with lower flow rates ie; nitrates, phosphates, cyano etc...

Only 10 years ago most literature suggested 3-5x turnover rate and 2-3 watts of light per gallon. So all I'm saying is that information is evolving and in reefkeeping bigger/more is almost always better.

Todd

Todd, I was meaning high flow in the sump, high turnover between sump and display. Running separate refugium at low flow encourage the grown and accumulation of algae (wanted and unwanted) in a specific area.
I run a Barracuda as a return in a 200g system, that's 35 times the volume lol
But I like to run the refugium at low rate. I'm from Europe, so I was lucky to not have to deal with that wet/dry era, even if I enjoy some old school books every once in a while, like Thiel

 

[Scooterman]

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14793&page=3

LOL sorreee!!

 

[TJL]

Hey grassi, understood but I also have run high-flow through my fuge for many years and before that through a algae turf filter. I do run sort of an open style fuge with only one real baffle and a spray bar inlet so water movement is kind of like natural ocean current. There are many kinds of pods, mysid shrimp, stomatilla snails and mini brittle stars that do very well along with multiple types of algaes.
And as far as Old-School Books I have the complete set of Pacific Marine Fishes by Burgess & Axelrod starting in 1972, and I started actual Berlin Style reefkeeping in 1982 after meeting Martin Moe Jr. A whole lot has changed in 28+ years so I try and stay open-minded as I can, and when teaching pass along my learned knowledge of what has and has-not worked for me and try and tone down the Flavor of the Month mentality that comes with the hobby.
Dave is a good example of a Newb doing it right, educating himself by reading and asking many questions before pulling the trigger on equipment or livestock and the chances of his success are great.

Cheers, Todd

 

[NC2WA]

educating himself by reading and asking many questions before pulling the trigger on equipment or livestock and the chances of his success are great.

Gotta agree on this statement from Todd.

IMO, this is the number one thing newbs do NOT want to do, they just want a tank, fill it with water, then immediately add fish or corals...sorta like a Big Whooper, they want it their way and now..

well, to do it correctly and increase your chance for success, you need to slow it down, read, read some more, devised a well thought out PLAN, and then pull the trigger.

 

[Xtremedave67]

Thanks Todd, NC2WA LOL I do try to learn things and read up.....but the 44G we have kinda was a stumbling entry LOL but fortunately I came on board this site very early on to steer toward the right direction

 

[Xtremedave67]

Pics

here is a couple shots, of the low profile overflows, and closed loop holes, just droped the plumbing in for reference LOL

thinking maybe a coast to coast and a couple more returns for CL

 

[Xtremedave67]

question about the holes for bulkheads....this tank has 2 7/8" holes cut for the 2 inch bulkheads, I guess I assumed that the holes would normally be slightly larger just enough to fit the bulkhead in?

 

[TJL]

Hey Dave, the 2" is inside diameter + wall + threading = Big @ss hole in acrylic = great flow

Todd

 

[Xtremedave67]

Todd, that I understand.....I wasnt to clear in my description.....in this case the OD on the bulkhead is roughly a 1/4 inch smaller than the actual drilled holes in Tank.....I was under impression that a hole barely larger than the OD of bulkheads is neccessary? in other words if I slip the bulkhead into hole there is a LOT of play..I can wiggle the bulkhead a quarter inch circumfrencially in the tank hole...is this normal?

ill try to snap a pic to show what Im describing