Closed Loop and general plumbing

[TJL]

Hey Dave, yea they seem a little larger than neccessary but I don't believe dangerouosly so as long as there is plenty of contact between fitting & Acrylic. I would be very careful as to center the fittings maybe even cut off a piece of 2"-2 1/2" hose slightly less then thickness of acrylic, split it so it goes most the way around threads before inserting into hole and use as a bushing to keep centered. Are these the fittings that were previously used on this tank ?

Todd

 

[Xtremedave67]

Todd ahhhhh smart thinking ty, and yes the originals bulkheads, when I am ready to look over the plumbing on this thing more closely, Ill look into a larger bulkhead that may fit better (if they exist), and reduce back to 2" overflow drains

they have the typical cork gaskets that were installed, and no evidence they leaked at all. yes I defiantely can see centering within the holes is essential.

 

[Xtremedave67]

here is a couple snaps of my question about the hole vs. the O.D. of bulkhead...thats an 2" I.D. bulkhead. and a 2 7/8" hole
and I think I want to drill 2 more holes so I have a total of 4 returns for CL.

1. is the pump thats been driving it OK to add another 2 returns?
2. is drilling the bottom of this tank a concern for strength? or should I drill low back wall?
and if I dont drill, I know some use PVC to conduit to returns in other locations within tank under rock to add more return outlets, is that a viable solution as well?

a friend has an ATB medium skimmer for sale, though I havent read up all the pros n cons of one skimmer model to another ( loaded question, so many opinions)

Medium Cone Skimmer
Size: 16Lx10.25Wx21.5H
Base Diameter 10.25�€�
Pump: AirStar 1300 <------believe he has an Eheim 1262 instead
Max Air 1300L/hr ***
Power Consumption 54 watts
Tank rating: up to 480 gallons.

I was looking at a SWC cone when I get to that purchase with a minimum heavy bio load that is rated for my tank at the very least if not more.

 

[thatguy559]

as long as the rubber seal covers the hole completely with so overhang you are good if not go the next size up in bulk heads

 

[Xtremedave67]

thanks, and I believe TJL mentioned doing a somewhat DIY gasket as well. I may look at what bulkheads sized up may work as well
The cardiac pro in me like a good fit, I think of under deployed coronary stents that clog and thromose LOL

 

[Scooterman]

If you use schedule 80 BH's you need a bigger hole, I had schedule 40 BH's issues more than once. Get the hole chart off Marinedepot.
You need to break down your Flow/Circulation. The overflow goes to the sump then returns back to the tank, usually a Eheim 1262 would produce enough flow for that @ 900gph.
Now for water circulation, you need a separate system, maybe using a Sequence Dart or sequence 4200, these require a 2" suction directly from the main tank & then your outlets can be off a 1 1/2" header dropping down to 3/4" BH's with nozzles like lock-lines inside the tank. You will need to make a larger dispersion box for a suction that large, like the one I made.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257898&postcount=343

 

[Skimmy]

allrighty then,
most of you know what im going to say...lol

get some acrylic, and some #16 acrylic glue and cover those holes...
i can hardly call an inlet and then poorly placed outlet right next to the inlet in each corner a closed loop anyway.
i would call that a brain fart actually...
but not yours of course...

so even after my little shpeal, you still want to do a closed loop,
IMO, you need to drill new inlets and outlets that are worth a damn,
and dont potentially compromise the structural integrity of your tank.

so first off,
chaotic or random flow in a closed reef system is completely over-rated,
and anymore really, is just an excuse to sell useless crap to/for people,
not fish or corals... designing your flow this way is not the best thing to do at all.
it has been proven by people with phd's in thermodynamics that because of the way that corals respirate
(one of the main reasons your providing this high flow in the first place),
that a laminar gyre of flow has a more postitive effect on growth than random or chaotic flow...
so i would rethink the whole random/chaotic thing...
second, the massive amount of plumbing required to build a good closed loop for a 260g
will not only be more costly than you think, but will provide alot more area for things to fail,
and is time consuming and obnoxious to do the actual maintenance on
(all of those plumbing parts and bulkheads should be replaced every 5-7 years or so,
and the plumbing itself will need to be taken off and cleaned in vinegar every 2-3 years because of calcification).
and if you use holes on the bottom of the tank, guess what?? you get to empty the whole tank to do said maintenance...

so what would i do??
i would buy 3-4 of these:
http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/T6125_000.html
and put then in a vertical row on one end and let that wave travel around the whole tank. like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=Mz15R0gVMPA&feature=related
(if you havent seen this vid from me posting it everywhere, your not paying attention...lol)

no plumbing nightmare,
no holes on the bottom of the tank,
no loud external pump,
no unsightly loc line poking out of every corner in your tank.
done and done....

and now, a few service announcements:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agT2GVNQjao&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R-FZsysQNw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhzrOAtU2C8&feature=channel

 

[Skimmy]

If you use schedule 80 BH's you need a bigger hole, I had schedule 40 BH's issues more than once. Get the hole chart off Marinedepot.
You need to break down your Flow/Circulation. The overflow goes to the sump then returns back to the tank, usually a Eheim 1262 would produce enough flow for that @ 900gph.
Now for water circulation, you need a separate system, maybe using a Sequence Dart or sequence 4200, these require a 2" suction directly from the main tank & then your outlets can be off a 1 1/2" header dropping down to 3/4" BH's with nozzles like lock-lines inside the tank. You will need to make a larger dispersion box for a suction that large, like the one I made.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257898&postcount=343

excellent call on the eheim 1262 for a return pump!!

 

[vinny2261]

You also need the bigger holes to supply the pump with water. Most pumps running closed loops that I have encountered need a high volume access to water to move it through the tank.

 

[Scooterman]

Well, I think If you go closed loop I'd keep it simple, several outlets would produce lots of circulation but some people like the stream type pumps, I had both & like them either way. I wouldn't recommend an OM or MBV or some sort of wave maker because they do require lots of maintenance.
Hey everyone has opinions though.

I like simple ideas!

 

[Skimmy]

Well, I think If you go closed loop I'd keep it simple, several outlets would produce lots of circulation but some people like the stream type pumps, I had both & like them either way. I wouldn't recommend an OM or MBV or some sort of wave maker because they do require lots of maintenance.
Hey everyone has opinions though.

I like simple ideas!

absolutely agreed, if you do a closed loop...simplicity is the key,
i would almost just do like 2-3 outlet on each end that were the full 1.5"
still producing a gyre wave, not random/chaotic. and yes,
if you do use an external pump for a closed loop,
sequence pumps are the only ones you want to consider, the best...

and yep, OM's are the devil btw...

 

[Krish]

I did the powerhead thingy with some tunze streams and then did a closed loop on a 38 gal. Both did the job, but the closed loop was a cleaner look in the tank. Here's a few quick shots of the 38 gal. Two 1500 gph pumps for the closed loop. 1 suction and 2 outputs per pump (one up top split in 2 and on on the bottom slip in 2). I originally ran one 1500 gph pump through the 4 outlets but didn't like the flow so I had to alter the plumbing a bit to add in another pump.







Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Xtremedave67]

I have 2 reeflo darts 1 was sump, 1 was CL.....and a Coralife turbosea that I think was going to be his 2nd pump, for a 2nd sump and calc reactor...not sure.

1st skimmerwhisper, we all have opinions, and we all have a right to those opinions, but they are JUST that.... Opinions.
you come across abrasive and like your word is gospel of all knowlege.
I welcome your input if you can keep it at a friendly tone. and realize there are many ways to skin a cat.

Some like CL some dont, to say a loc line is unsightly vs a power head, half dozen one, 6 the other, but a loc line can be hidden if planned out.

I got a great deal on this tank and honestly patched up holes look unsightly to me. SO ill work with what I have. and if I decide it isnt a system for me, Ill make that change when I upgrade.
I LOVE input, and opinions and experience of others, Ill decide what I like after I come to a conclusion from the research which I do do so well.

 

[Krish]

I have 2 reeflo darts 1 was sump, 1 was CL.....and a Coralife turbosea that I think was going to be his 2nd pump, for a 2nd sump and calc reactor...not sure.

1st skimmerwhisper, we all have opinions, and we all have a right to those opinions, but they are JUST that.... Opinions.
you come across abrasive and like your word is gospel of all knowlege.
I welcome your input if you can keep it at a friendly tone. and realize there are many ways to skin a cat.

Some like CL some dont, to say a loc line is unsightly vs a power head, half dozen one, 6 the other, but a loc line can be hidden if planned out.

I got a great deal on this tank and honestly patched up holes look unsightly to me. SO ill work with what I have. and if I decide it isnt a system for me, Ill make that change when I upgrade.
I LOVE input, and opinions and experience of others, Ill decide what I like after I come to a conclusion from the research which I do do so well.

I wouldn't worry too much man as I don't think Mark had bad intentions. There is definately more than one way to skin a cat in this hobby so I would do what suits you best...That's what I always do. Good luck with it all! I'm sure it will come out just fine

 

[Krish]

BTW, to add to my previous post where I showed the closed loop on my 38 gal, here is a photo of my old 75gal that use a combination of an over the top closed loop, 2 tunze streams (one on a controller) and a sea swirl on my return... So a bit of everything. The tank was a bit more junkie IMO with all the stuff sitting in the tank which was why I had to make matching covers the color of my background for the overflow and the intake plumbing for the closed loop (which you can see in the 2 corners) and also the reason I switched to strictly a closed loop on the 38 gal. It all depends on what you like though. Some people don't mind seeing all the powerheads or lockline whereas some hate it. All a matter of personal opinion, but in the end, all accomplish the same thing...Flow.





Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Skimmy]

I have 2 reeflo darts 1 was sump, 1 was CL.....and a Coralife turbosea that I think was going to be his 2nd pump, for a 2nd sump and calc reactor...not sure.

1st skimmerwhisper, we all have opinions, and we all have a right to those opinions, but they are JUST that.... Opinions.
you come across abrasive and like your word is gospel of all knowlege.
I welcome your input if you can keep it at a friendly tone. and realize there are many ways to skin a cat.

Some like CL some dont, to say a loc line is unsightly vs a power head, half dozen one, 6 the other, but a loc line can be hidden if planned out.

I got a great deal on this tank and honestly patched up holes look unsightly to me. SO ill work with what I have. and if I decide it isnt a system for me, Ill make that change when I upgrade.
I LOVE input, and opinions and experience of others, Ill decide what I like after I come to a conclusion from the research which I do do so well.

sorry, im not a hand holder or a sugar coater... i call it like i see it...
your posting on a public forum after all, and as you pointed out, will hear people's opinions that you dont potentially agree with.
im sure you dont want to hear that i think you need to change the way you want to set up ur tank,
or that the equipment you bought with the tank isnt ideal,
but who cares what i think anyway???
ultimately i dont even care how you set up your tank, but my posts are for others as well, not just you.
you can either benifit from my over 12 years of pro reef design or ignore me,
the choice is yours. i certainly dont consider my words gospel, and would be horrified if you did, so dont.

also, i fail to see how ur patched holes would even be visible if they were on the bottom in the back corners,
they would be covered by rock or sand.
any other holes that are not on the bottom, could be utilized for sump returns most likely, or just capped on the exterior.

and you apparantly didnt view my service announcements, because you would have learned; not to smoke crack, we should clean up after ourselves, and finally, that you can do your reef how you want, because were FKD anyway!!

 

[Scooterman]

OK guys, now, lets slow this down some and not take it so much to heart, Input is good but the rest is drama we don't really need.

 

[Skimmy]

exactly... there was no "drama" in my first post...
i was not disrespectful to you in any way,
i offered my consructive criticism and
i was light hearted and cracking jokes.

...seriously people, grow some "forum skin".

 

[Xtremedave67]

not the forum for this, Ill stay on the CL task at hand
others? I like to hear what other folks have done?

 

[lvsuckerfish]

closed loop is a good Idea I personally like them more flow with hidden ports. I have a closed loop on my system I choose to use the back wall to drill not on the bottom. as for ease of maintenance in-case bulk head leaks or something. . it will be costly as unions and valves will want to be placed in front of the ports aka returns so you can fine tune if you wish not necessary but would be a good Idea. I would keep it simple and also stay away from OM's as they will need more maintenance then it's worth. random flow is a good thing also. the ocean is not just one direction of flow other ways work good also but if you have it use it. thats what I think. the hole you have is probably drilled for a 1 1/2 schedule 80 bulk head as for a 2 inch you will need a 3 1/4 hole saw which you need one for 2 in sch80 I have a spare I bought on accident.