Crazy plumbing question

[roscoe]

You may want to consider putting in a return manifold to feed other equipment such as a calcium reactor for all of my (oops I mean your corals) and possibly phos and carbon reactors.

That is what I did. One pump will run my entire system which include 2 refugiums a frag tank and the DT. Cheaper and easier to deal with just one pump.

 

[gas4544]

Here is a good source for valves and other plumbing supplies:

http://www.savko.com/

 

[Holygral]

Here is a good source for valves and other plumbing supplies:

http://www.savko.com/

I have the same corner flows on my 120. I called Marineland and was told that each of the 1.5 inch holes are rated at 800 gph, if that helps

 

[returnofsid]

That's 800 gph rating is for gravity flow. Flow will be increased when water is being pulled through those holes by suction. My problem is figuring out if it'll increase enough to keep the back end of the pump I want to use flooded.

 

[Skimmy]

just my 2 cents worth...
mkay, first off, I would avoid the use of large external high watt pumps for flow, let alone for combined duty of return and closed loop(glad you decided against that), or chiller/CArx feed. as mentioned if it fails, everything is toast... And obviously this could be fixed by having a spare pump on hand to switch out...But for the cost of those 2 pumps, all the plumbing, gate valves, hours out of your life, you could probably have a dual tunze/vortec set up w/controller.
which would be vastly more appropriate TYPE of flow for your corals and fish,
consume WAAAY less watts. Also, there's the maintenance factor... all plumbing/bulkheads should probably be replaced after 5 years, (unless it's all sched 80, @ doulble the cost) and it should be designed with unions and valves as gary mentioned for removal and maintenance once or twice a year...UGGGGHH!! I dont know about you, but I'd rather just drop a powerhead into some muratic acid....
So..If it was me...I'd run a eheim 1262 for a return pump, and If I did anything at all to the oveflow box, it would be to hid a tunze in it...

and i love the new large tunze that look like the nano's:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...duct_Code=T6125.000&Category_Code=Tunze_pumps

 

[roscoe]

just my 2 cents worth...
mkay, first off, I would avoid the use of large external high watt pumps for flow, let alone for combined duty of return and closed loop(glad you decided against that), or chiller/CArx feed. as mentioned if it fails, everything is toast... And obviously this could be fixed by having a spare pump on hand to switch out...But for the cost of those 2 pumps, all the plumbing, gate valves, hours out of your life, you could probably have a dual tunze/vortec set up w/controller.
which would be vastly more appropriate TYPE of flow for your corals and fish,
consume WAAAY less watts. Also, there's the maintenance factor... all plumbing/bulkheads should probably be replaced after 5 years, (unless it's all sched 80, @ doulble the cost) and it should be designed with unions and valves as gary mentioned for removal and maintenance once or twice a year...UGGGGHH!! I dont know about you, but I'd rather just drop a powerhead into some muratic acid....
So..If it was me...I'd run a eheim 1262 for a return pump, and If I did anything at all to the oveflow box, it would be to hid a tunze in it...

and i love the new large tunze that look like the nano's:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...duct_Code=T6125.000&Category_Code=Tunze_pumps

Agree Agree!!! I have 3 tunze 6060,6100, 6101 and 2 MP40 in the 270. Just for my water movement and their is some mad random flow. I am consuming between 125-175w depending on what mode the pumps are operatng in. Upfront cost is more but in the long run it saves on energy.

 

[Taqpol]

I have to agree with the above also. For the cost of one of those external pumps you can almost (~$100 short) buy a single Vortech. Now add in the cost of two new Sea Swirls and you almost have the second Vortech. Add up all the cost of the plumbing and your time, and a pair of vortechs with a battery backup starts to look very, very nice. Thats what i did on my system and I couldn't be happier with it. Half the wattage (big time savings in the long run), very little heat, super easy to tune the flow, and much more random then any closed loop could ever accomplish.

Also, Two vortechs might be the only flow you need in your entire tank if you can direct the returns to kick up any amount of detritus.

 

[Taqpol]

Plus, with two overflows and a total of four holes you can have two of them dedicated to a Herbie overflow, two of them be return lines and be able to have the tank flush against the wall.

 

[estanoche]

IMO the CL might be better....

Since the flow on a Vortech is so dispursed, I don't think you get much reach out of them..... Especially once you throw rockwork in. Using a CL and sea swirls you are going to get a more direct flow output and you will end up getting a farther "throw" of your water

The MP40 I have in my 40B, while blowing the hell outta the corals within the first 12" or so, the end of the tank, near the 30" mark is getting just about as much flow as if I put my MJ1200 in there in place of the MP40.

I know in my 90 corner that I had, that spot right in the middle of the tank was the hardest part to get flow in, and it sucked putting all the high flow items to the edges of the tank just so they could get the flow they needed.......

Although it made for a nice zoa habitat sheltered from the icy winds of the north :badgrin: Maybe thats how giganto-zoas are born!

 

[roscoe]

My 72''x36''x24'' 270 with 2 MP40 on each end creats some massive water movement. That along with 2 tunze each mounted on a Wavysea creates way more random flow than any closed loop system I've seen and I've seen too many. You don't want direct flow. There is no real dead spots in the tank. The combination I have going with the MP40 and Tunze/WS IMHO creates some great flow but each to their own.

 

[Taqpol]

When I turn one of my vortechs off I can definitely still see detritus and sand rolling around on the opposite side of my four foot tank, just not enough to keep it in suspension. With two vortechs and my returns pointed into the corners I have never had a detritus buildup in my tank. I just feel that vortechs are the way to go because they create a much more natural water motion. Even on reef crests a big wave will pick you up and move you several feet over without ever feeling that jet stream effect caused by narrow powerheads or return line/closed loop piping.

If you really feel the need to supplement your flow then I would add one of your current powerheads on the back wall blowing up the middle, but I think you would have great and random water motion with a pair of vortechs.

 

[sandswhitson]

An ehiem 1262 is only 900 GPH. That with two vortechs is not going to be enough flow for a 200. I think that the closed loop is an excellent way to add flow without having alot of extra equipment in the tank, also the seaswirls add alot of random flow with ther rotating feature.

 

[roscoe]

An ehiem 1262 is only 900 GPH. That with two vortechs is not going to be enough flow for a 200. I think that the closed loop is an excellent way to add flow without having alot of extra equipment in the tank, also the seaswirls add alot of random flow with ther rotating feature.

900GPH is perfect for turning over that sized tank. I push 1200GPH which is just under 5x turn over of the DT. You don't want to rely on the return for flow anyways. If the SS is hooked up to the CL that would be great but if using it on the return it sort of defeats the purpose as you will have minimal flow from the return. With the 2 MP40 they push my sand around quite a bit. I have to rake the sand back every couple of days (which sucks).

 

[sandswhitson]

I think that the eheim will be fine for the sump return. What I am saying is that the sump return and two vortechs will not be enough flow in the display tank for the corals that Michael has. He would have to have some other kind of supplemental flow such as the Tunzes. If you add the cost of Tunzes and Vortechs together I believe it would be quite pricey.

 

[sandswhitson]

Plus you have to look at the big and bulky Tunzes in the display. When I set up my 300 I am hoping to minimize the powerheads in the tank. I am working on a deal of three vortech's right now but they are used and are still close to $1,000 and they still won't be enough flow by themselves for an SPS dominated tank.

 

[roscoe]

I think that the eheim will be fine for the sump return. What I am saying is that the sump return and two vortechs will not be enough flow in the display tank for the corals that Michael has. He would have to have some other kind of supplemental flow such as the Tunzes. If you add the cost of Tunzes and Vortechs together I believe it would be quite pricey.

He can mount Tunze on the SS like I did on my WS. In that size tank at 3'' deep you hardly notice them. Here is some pics of my WS Tunze combo.

 

[sandswhitson]

I hadn't seen anything like that before. That looks pretty cool. Any pics of it in your tank after being setup?

 

[roscoe]

Plus you have to look at the big and bulky Tunzes in the display. When I set up my 300 I am hoping to minimize the powerheads in the tank. I am working on a deal of three vortech's right now but they are used and are still close to $1,000 and they still won't be enough flow by themselves for an SPS dominated tank.

You would be surprised at what the vortechs can do. I can turn off all 3 of my Tunze and run the MP40 by themselves and I still get some crazy flow. I am thinking of putting my Tunze on a timer for them to turn off at night to simulate the calmer water during the night hours.

 

[roscoe]

I hadn't seen anything like that before. That looks pretty cool. Any pics of it in your tank after being setup?

I do have some pics you can check out my build thread on the 270g and you can see how I set everything up. It is a long thread though LOL. I'll try to post some pics of it in a bit. On a plus side too there is no wires in the tank. I ran the wires up into the WS and out the top. I learned that trick from Adam (Mightymouse).

 

[Skimmy]

An ehiem 1262 is only 900 GPH. That with two vortechs is not going to be enough flow for a 200. I think that the closed loop is an excellent way to add flow without having alot of extra equipment in the tank, also the seaswirls add alot of random flow with ther rotating feature.

my problem (along with a large watt sucking pump) is with how innapropriate the nozzel outlets on a closed loop are compared to the gentle flow from a wide outlet prop style powerhead. and also, i would have to say that flow randomization is overrated and that you would get more power if the powerheads were set up in a gyre configuration instead. and i would actually go with 3-4 of these non-controllable tunze that are 3000gph and only
$235 each and just leave them on full power for 24/7.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...duct_Code=T6125.000&Category_Code=Tunze_pumps

also, if your just using as a post to mount tunze to, the 1/2" seaswirl is alot less cash, not controllable, but still does the job great instead of coughing up $200+ for the wavysea