Crazy plumbing question

[roscoe]

I think the Gyre is over rated myself. Each to thier own though. I like the mad random chaotic flow. The Gyre makes the water movement unnatural to me but that is my opinion. I like the option of being able to set the start and stop point and the speed control better on the WS. It is IMO more versatile. Not to throw the thread off subjuct but when is your Reef Product line coming out?

 

[returnofsid]

Here's the deal, that is really wanting me to go with the closed loop. The external pump I'd be using is a Dolphin Ampmaster 5600/4700 that I'd be paying $150.00 for!! That's a pretty hard deal to pass up, IF I can put it to use. This would be MUCH cheaper than some of the other options that have been posted.

To answer a couple of questions I read in the past few posts:

The SeaSwirls would be ran with the closed loop, not the return pump. The return pump would only be used in the sump, as an actual return, using one of the overflows, as it's designed to be used.

The only other option that I'd probably consider, is to use both overflows as they're intended and used powerheads in the tank. If I go that route, I'll probably use Koralia pumps or Modded MJ1200s. I'd lean towards Modded MJ1200s on Suregrip mounts, just because of the great success I've had with them already.

 

[roscoe]

Here's the deal, that is really wanting me to go with the closed loop. The external pump I'd be using is a Dolphin Ampmaster 5600/4700 that I'd be paying $150.00 for!! That's a pretty hard deal to pass up, IF I can put it to use. This would be MUCH cheaper than some of the other options that have been posted.

To answer a couple of questions I read in the past few posts:

The SeaSwirls would be ran with the closed loop, not the return pump. The return pump would only be used in the sump, as an actual return, using one of the overflows, as it's designed to be used.

The only other option that I'd probably consider, is to use both overflows as they're intended and used powerheads in the tank. If I go that route, I'll probably use Koralia pumps or Modded MJ1200s. I'd lean towards Modded MJ1200s on Suregrip mounts, just because of the great success I've had with them already.

In that size tank Koralias are useless unless you go with bigger Koralias like the 6 or 7. I put my K4 in the tank just to see what it does and you can barley feel the flow. Mike when you are on this side of the mountains you are welcome over to check out how crazy my flow is in the 270.

 

[returnofsid]

Roscoe, I'd love to take you up on that offer. Hope to be over there in a little over a week. I think I'd have to agree with your opinion of the Koralia pump. I'm running a K3 and a Modded MJ1200 in my 75. The MJ1200 puts out TONS of flow but the K3....ehhhh. Maxijets are such proven powerheads as it is. The Sureflow mods are rock solid and dependable and the suregrip mounts are just as solid. I think this combination beats our Koralia any day.

Now I just need to decide which way to go.

 

[Taqpol]

I know vortech's seem like a lot of money, but I really think they are unbeatable in performance and controllability. I have also heard some bad things about the quality of Dolphin pumps, but that is a really good price. If we price some stuff out:

Dolphin Pump: $150
2x 1" Sea Swirls: $480 (2x$240)
Plumbing:
4x1" Union Ball valves: $40 (4x$10)
2x1.5" Union ball valves $40 (2x$20)

Total: $710 at a bare minimum, not counting miscellaneous costs. (What do penductors cost? Factor in another $50-100 for other plumbing parts)

At this point you're only about 1-200 dollars away from a pair of vortechs with battery backup. http://www.reefgeek.com/equipment/P...ontrollers_&_Battery_Backup_by_EcoTech_Marine

 

[roscoe]

Roscoe, I'd love to take you up on that offer. Hope to be over there in a little over a week. I think I'd have to agree with your opinion of the Koralia pump. I'm running a K3 and a Modded MJ1200 in my 75. The MJ1200 puts out TONS of flow but the K3....ehhhh. Maxijets are such proven powerheads as it is. The Sureflow mods are rock solid and dependable and the suregrip mounts are just as solid. I think this combination beats our Koralia any day.

Now I just need to decide which way to go.

Remember CL is fixed with PH you can move them around as your tank matures. I think you will change your mind once you see the flow I got in my tank. The MJ mod would probaly do but you might need more than you would like in your tank.

I know vortech's seem like a lot of money, but I really think they are unbeatable in performance and controllability. I have also heard some bad things about the quality of Dolphin pumps, but that is a really good price. If we price some stuff out:

Dolphin Pump: $150
2x 1" Sea Swirls: $480 (2x$240)
Plumbing:
4x1" Union Ball valves: $40 (4x$10)
2x1.5" Union ball valves $40 (2x$20)

Total: $710 at a bare minimum, not counting miscellaneous costs. (What do penductors cost? Factor in another $50-100 for other plumbing parts)

At this point you're only about 1-200 dollars away from a pair of vortechs with battery backup. http://www.reefgeek.com/equipment/P...ontrollers_&_Battery_Backup_by_EcoTech_Marine

Great point! You can also go in on group buys on the vortechs on some forums and it is usually $365 shipped to your door and there are great deals on used ones if you look around. I hate plumbing also LOL. That was a major hidden cost for me on my 270 build all those parts added up quickly. I mean I didn't think it would cost me $300+ on plumbing parts LOL. That ate up some cash I had for a calcium reactor.

 

[returnofsid]

Oh I can get Sea Swirls, used, for MUCH cheaper than that. The valves for each return line wouldn't need to be unioned and the Dolphin already has true unions on each side, so only valves would be needed, which are quite a bit cheaper than $20.00 each.

I can pick up 2X3/4" Seaswirls for less than $100.00.
3/4" or 1" penductors for $20.00 each.
Misc. PVC pipe, reducing bushings and such, for under $75.00, IF I don't already have what I need in my "Misc. plumbing boxes" lol.

OR

4-6 Modded Maxijets that put out 2200 gph each, with Suregrip mounts for under $50.00 each. This option would give me 8000-13000 gph of flow, without taking into account my 2 drain and return lines (each corner overflow). Maxijets also use less power, when modded, and produce very little heat. I've heard a lot of people say that they only last a year or so. I have 3 that I purchased used, almost 3 years ago. Before I had them, they had at least 3 years of use on them. They're still running very strong.

 

[returnofsid]

Roscoe, when I attempted to design an over the back closed loop for my 75, it took 3 or 4 trips to Home Depot and ended up costing WAY more than I thought...lol. AND, I used to work as a plumber, so shoulda had it easier than most!! I hear ya.

I called Spokane Pump this morning. The tech I spoke with said that with 24"-26" of water, over the 2 bulkheads (1" PVC stubbed out of bulkheads) converging into a 1 1/2" line, via a Y, and then a 24" drop to the pump, I should have no problem keeping the suction end of the pump flooded if outputting at least 3000 gph. I plan to call Dolphin tomorrow and ask their advice...lol. Then I might just dry fit it all together, fill the tank up with freshwater and test the theory, minus the Sea Swirls of course. I'd just fit 4 temporary lines over the back. I could even just run a single 1 1/2" return over the top and into the water, to see if I end up with any microbubbles. That'll tell me if I'm getting any cavitation or not. Okay, maybe dryfitting isn't such a good idea with that kind of pressure....lol.

 

[Scooterman]

Have you thought about making a hybrid?

 

[returnofsid]

a Hybrid what? Aren't hybrids usually sterile? LOL

 

[Scooterman]

You can use a combination of several of these options. Simple cl, with a few ph's.

 

[Taqpol]

Ok, at that price the sea swirls look good. I've just never liked how expensive they were and how bulky they are on top of the tank.

Another thought, if you're comfortable with it and feel like a more traditional closed loop, I have all the hole saws and experience with drilling holes for 1" and 1.5" bulkheads. Its much easier then people make it out to be.

 

[Skimmy]

if your trying to do things on the cheap, you should look at these:
3000 gph, 24watts, magnet holders, $44, these are 2nd gen w/ ceramic shafts that dont rust,
and dont release current into tank like koralia's have been known to do.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...&Product_Code=CV-202B&Category_Code=Octo+Pump

you could get 4 of them(12,000gph) for less than $200!!!!
mount 2 of them on the seaswirls and 2 on the tank

 

[sandswhitson]

Can you use those on a controller?

 

[Skimmy]

I would say they would work on a controller, but it probably wouldnt be good for them.
what would be better would be a digital timer turning them on/off every 6-8 hours instead of every few minutes.
but I'm a big fan of all on 24/7....if you really gotta have chaotic flow,
I would do as Sarang showed in his picture with the powerhead attached to the wavysea/seaswirl.

 

[returnofsid]

Ya know, I've looked at those a few times, but have always had a couple questions about them.
1. The Dual units, can each individual "head" be swiveled, independently of the other?
2. What's up with the 12watt vs. 24 watt?
3. I've read a couple different threads about them and the consensus is that they do not do well on timers or controllers. Nor do they come with built in timers, of any kind, Sooo, why are they called "wavemakers?"

You can put 2 Modded MJ1200s on a single Suregrip 100, and swivel each independently. Each pair would put out 4400GPH, compared to the 3000 GPH you'd get out of these units. However, the price of 2 MJ1200s, 2 Sureflow Mods and 1 Suregrip 100 would be higher than these units, at $80-$100.00.

 

[Skimmy]

good questions...maybe luke33 will chime in here, he has alot of experience with them.
the dual one's do look as if they are a single unit moving in the same direction.

 

[sandswhitson]

I was afraid that they wouldn't do good on a controller as they look alot like koralia's.

 

[returnofsid]

Well, I just got off the phone with Dolphin Pumps, where I spoke with a Tech and the owner. They both seem to feel that the 2 1" lines will be able to keep the suction end of the pump flooded just fine. They even make a 2X1" - 1 1/2" manifold for just this type of application. They also suggested that I increase from 2X1" - 1 1/2" - 2" as high as possible and then continue the 2" feed down to the pump. Output would go from 2" to 1 1/2" manifold immediately. From the 1 1/2" manifold, my 4 returns would be 3/4".

 

[aquariumdebacle]

I would nor drill any holes in your overflow. It is designed for the flow rating and what you are not seeing is the little dip at the top where the water falls over the back. It designed to create a small vortex and suck some of the water from the bottom of the tank through those bottom grills. You mess with that and you may not get your desired results. I recommend you go with another option and not do it "on the cheap" This is not a hobby to cut corners, sorry had to put that in!

It looks like you may be able to drill a couple holes on either/both sides of that removable front piece and cram some power heads back there. I wouldn't rely on them as they are notorious for stopping. As additional flow on a timer they should not be a proble espeically if you can cram two or three back there.