dkh to high

[petitreef]

mmkeeper
I glad to see that things are improving.
Your Ca is hi, but not too high. As long as you get around and keep it about 420 you are good to go.
You dkh is good. I like to keep mine between 8-9. But everyone has a different opinion on dkh. To me, as long as it does not get too or too low. You will be just fine.

 

[rugie]

hi dkh

Your Ph is too low, increase your alk to about 14-16, seltzer water only lowers alkalinity, (by adding carbon dioxide) your problem is the ca reactor. usually they require almost constant tweaking would be a good idea to shut it down for a while. 20% water exchanges are a good way to go. a good tank tune up is ch'g 10 gal ea day for 10 days.

 

[mmkeeper]

Would you reccomend raising the ph by adding Kalwasser or B-Ionic?

 

[wrightme43]

Please not to step on any toes.
My experince has been do it slow, and do it with water changes. If something is out of wack with dkh, ca, ph, and mg. Changing one will not work the way it seems it should.
Maybe think about it like this. Your fish and corals are alive, they are not trying to climb out of the tank and crawl to the toliet.
Chaseing one parameter will push another one. Raiseing ph right now just might push it to snowstorm or precip the ca and alk and mg depending on what you use to raise ph.
Or just let it be do a few partial water changes and let your coral pull alk and ca and mg down on there own. Get it stable and slowly crank the co2 reactor back up.
What are you growing? Sps lps clams?
What is your tanks CA and Alk usage per day. Find out the answer to that, then set your reactor to provide it and no more.
First things first is a steady base line, you pick it. Then use additives to control. Chasing is not the best way to go.

 

[steve-s]

I would also add that CO2 will not impact alkalinity much if at all. It will however directly impact the pH levels severely supressing them. If thats what you have been dosing in hopes of lower the alkalinity, it will only make matters worse. Best thing you can do is make sure the tank and tank room have as much aeration as possible. During winter months especially, low pH can be a concern from less outside fresh air making it's way into the house and low level CO2 concentrations not being "cleared out". Believe it or not, the easiest solution can be as simple as opening a window.

Cheers
Steve

 

[rugie]

I wuld not want to see you adjust any parameters until you have shut down the ca reactor and then have waited about 10 days kalk will increase ca also as will b-ionic raising your dkh/alk slowly will drop the ca but as mentioned watch for precipitation. go with the water changes. are you sure your test kits are accurate? will your lfs or salt buddy test your water for you? don't panic all will be well in time. shutting down the ca reactor will correct your immediate problem.

 

[rugie]

The alk should be buffering your Ph, it appears that you are experiencing precipitation. ca over 440 will almost always precipitate. how is it that your dkh is at the high end?, have you been dosing carbonates? many reefers have quit using the ca reactors due to many problems, as I indicated previous they require tweaking every few days & sometimes daily. if you are using too much co2 a lot of problems can arise.

 

[mmkeeper]

What are the signs of percipitation? Ph is up to 8.1 tonight. Ca and alk are slowly dropping. Will do another water change tomorrow.

 

[petitreef]

mmkeeper
How often are you doing your water changes and how much water are you replacing (10%)?

 

[mmkeeper]

6 gallons. Once a week till I noticed the alk and ca so high. Last change was yesterday and before that Sat. Looking at one tomorrow and then letting things rest abit

 

[petitreef]

I recommend that you wait 6 more days and do a 10% water change every week.

Remember, changes have to occur slowly or you risk shocking everything that you have in your tank. I know that we want to fix everything right away, but patience extremely important in this hobby.

Over time, if you keep up with the weekly water changes you will see your tank improve and your corals will grow.

For me, it took months for things to get in line, but that happens when you start with a fish only system and when you don't even do monthly water changes.

 

[wrightme43]

Cool
A precip. event will be almost instant. The tank will just turn white and stuff will just start to fall out of suspension. How do I know? My ******* did it a long time ago. Everything in my tank survived. This stuff is tough and has a real will to survive. Push it to far and it dies of course but its alot hardier than it is given credit for. Just go slow. Now here is another thing that you can think about
With properly mixed, heated, checked ph, ca, mg, and dkh I have changed close to 100% of the water in tanks many times. 50% alot with zero problems. Dont half ass a big water change. Check it super good, but it wont hurt anything if you do it right.

 

[DonW]

Just do a WC or two. If your using IO add some calcium chloride to get the ca in balance. Leave the reactor off until your tank actually needs it. Keep it stable and all will be fine.
Your not going to hurt anything doing water changes. If youve got a high co2house runnung your alk at 16 in not going to do a thing to help ph. Maybe exchange the ca reactor for a bucket of kalk for a while. You just plain need to get your own system to keeping the tank params stable with no swings. CA and alk are very easy once you get a system, dont get caught up in the additives balancing act and you wil be fine.

Don

 

[rugie]

MMKeeper, precip can also be subtle, the particals can be very fine. sometimes it can be seen by holding a glass of tank water up to the sunlight and a shining effect on the crystals can be seen. precip is the binding of minerals, they become heavy and fall out of solution, usually they are not dissolvable again, they can bind your substrate into lumps and as stated encrust everything in the tank. if you have buffer and ca supplements mix 2 drops of each in a spoon and you will see precip. we experiance precip when buffer and ca are very high these 2 elements work against each other, high buffering (alk) will reduce ca (by precipitating it out of solution) and vice versa when the 2 are in balance ,all is well, when they both get very high Ph is diffacult to maintain as precip is occuring and the balance is askew, I lean toward the co2 used in the reactor as causing the even more lowering of your Ph. kalkwasser is tricky and can cause problems if not used correctly. with the ca reactor off and water exchanges all will be fine in time.

 

[wrightme43]

Good post Rugie, you explained it alot better than I can. LOL

 

[mmkeeper]

Update

Added air to my sump two days ago.
Ca 500
Alk 17.8
PH 8.2
Temp 79.5

 

[rugie]

dkh too high

Well it is not getting any worse and your Ph is coming up.the ca reactor is off right? the air stone will help greatly as it will drive off the co2. I know that water exchanges are expensive and they are adviseable but if you can maintain the Ph and perhaps get it up to 8.3- 8.4 then you may want to consider not doing water changes for the alk/ca condition as they are not so very bad for the short haul (would not be acceptable over a long period of time tho) perhaps you can just let the tank run the way it is. with the air stone and the ca reactor off your parameters should come in line. once you have hit target Ph start to cut down on the air quanity slowly. as it can push your Ph higher than the target. the dkh/alk, ca should drop depending on your tanks needs. they will come down. it is adviseable to test on a reg basis, sometimes after an induced spike a crash follows, this can be averted by testing and nipping the decline when it hits target. the desireable ca para would be 400-420 max dkh 8-9, alk 2.9-3.20 reg testing will show you which para to adjust to bring about balance. after your tank equalizes you can graph your ca needs and then set your additives to maintain those parameters. it really is not hard to do. if you decide to go the reactor route again be advised that it takes time, diligence and reg testing to to get it operating correctly, oft times one can never get them to work correctly. hang in there your on your way now.

 

[mmkeeper]

Update
Ph 8.3
Ca 490
Alk 16.6 5.94
Did a 6 gallon water change today

 

[mmkeeper]

finally close to balance
Alk 17
Ca 490
Ph 8.2

 

[plack]

You do know you want to eventually get down as low as Ca 425 Right !