Does ICH control fish?

[King_Neptune]

Ok that's an odd one but this is the full story:


My basic understanding of ICH,
It is a parasite that latches on to the fish, it looks a lot like the fish was sprinkled in salt, The parasite then falls off and returns to the sand to gestate and whatnot. Then hatches new larvae, from there it attaches back to the fish, leaches and matures to repeat the process.

OK,
Last week my Powdered Blue tang shows signs of ICH, the rubbing on rocks and eventually the sprinkles which come and go every few days. I had to wait till I could get the medicine so its not life threatening, but steadily get worse. I buy some emergency meds yesterday and was about to dose him on the next outbreak.

This morning I caught him doing something odd...
He is perfectly normal, swimming around picking at rocks and nothing troublesome. Then I catch him down at the bottom of the rocks on his side and rooting around thoroughly enjoying the sand bath. His fins were all happy and extended, not at all upset. His tail waggling diligently and fully flexing. IT was not the sigh of a fish under stress, but more resembled a pig happily rooting in the mud. After a couple minutes of this he comes out and is covered in sand. But,it looked just like what I was originally thinking to be ICH...so which is it?

OK now that you have the story What am I supposed to do?

I have his QT set up and ready to begin dosing him, but if its not ICH what should I do? Or is that how ICH works? forces the fish to grind in the dirt to latch onto him? Hes the only one in the tank, doing this, or getting speckled in white salty looking specks.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Your fish is dying from the parasite. You just don't see the dots.
It will need either a hyposalinity or Copper treatment depending on your tools and skill level. No other treatment will cure it. Additionally, the tank needs to be either treated or left fish free for a couple months. The store bought "reef safe" Ich treatments are hog wash.

Read the appropriate threads

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27003
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27155
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27005

Mods, please move this to Lee's Fish forum

 

[King_Neptune]

What makes the fish dive for the sand and root around? Is the white dots I'm seeing the pregnant ICH? Or is the White dots Sand?

Thanks for the links, I been doing a bit of extra homework for the last few hours as well.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

His skin is irritated and he is trying to rid self of parasites as in itching and scratching. Will create secondary bacterial infections. The skin though is the least of the problems, it is the gills...

Keep reading those three info strings and treat your fish

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Are there any other fish in the display? If so they too will need to be treated and the tank itself needs be cured by emptying it of all fish and keeping it empty of fish for 2 months+. This will be done while the fish are being treated in the QT. As long as you need to treat the tank, might as well do hypo which is the easiest and least stressful. Plus it gives very fast relief.

 

[sunny_mittu]

i believe ICH as a self parasite for fishes

90% times ich happens when these 4 things happen
1ver crowding
2:new rocks
3:uncompatibility between fishes
4:wrong acclimation(most important)

 

[Herefishyfishy]

i believe ICH as a self parasite for fishes

90% times ich happens when these 4 things happen
1ver crowding
2:new rocks
3:uncompatibility between fishes
4:wrong acclimation(most important)

No you are 100% wrong. Ich is a living creature that survives by infecting fish. It is a parasite that can be avoided and almost always needs to be treated to prevent fish death.

 

[King_Neptune]

well its none of the above for me.
rocks were in first, over 5 months ago.100lbs
72x20" foam wall for extra filtration.
Scrubber and Phos/Carbon reactor.
125DT/55Sump
I got 7 small fish, 1 medium sized tang. No over crowding there, lots of open space and hiding space. I never have anything but perfect/ideal readings when I test.
I can give a stock list, but they are all happy together; plus they are healthy, and comparable.

Acclimation was done via the drip method, it was as stress free as I could make it.

However there is a 5th culprit and is one I have to accept:
the only flaw In my method was I didn't QT the newest member...the tang. And I have now poisoned my system with ICH...potentially.

However, remember its just odd behavior at this point...he is only showing specks after deliberatly rubbingin the sand...they arent apearing from a parasite that swims up to him and latchs on. This is a peculiar case, that doesn't show the standard methods of ICH. That's why I brought this up in the first place.

I know him the least of everyone and he went from Ocean to my tank in less than 48hours. So whatever brought the ICH in the first place....I would easily bet on him.

If it wast for my two engineer gobies, I would say just put them in my 55g hospital tank for a couple months. Its sterile and no chance for the ich to survive. But getting those two out will be no small feat indeed.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Your observation aligns with what is typical.
Tangs are "Ich magnets"

The fish need to not only be in a sterile environment, they need treatment to be cured.
Yes catching ALL fish out of a display can be a very not-fun activity...

 

[King_Neptune]

Your observation aligns with what is typical.
Tangs are "Ich magnets"

The fish need to not only be in a sterile environment, they need treatment to be cured.
Yes catching ALL fish out of a display can be a very not-fun activity...

Im already entertaining how to trap them...but they are very very shy.

I can leave the inverts in the tank right?
I got a sea apple, hermits,snails, and a sea hare.
Might actually be an interesting time to add some cheap frags and see what happens in the two months there are no fish.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Yes, inverts can stay as well as rock and anything that isn't a fish.
Making lemonade out of lemons, thats the spirit!

Don't be afraid to remove your rock to a bucket or two of water to allow fish capture. Can even draw water level down to a few inches for fish capture.
Will only be temporary and often a lot less annoying and stressful

 

[leebca]

You're questions are all answered about the parasite in this post. Those posting wrong answers (NOT Herefishyfishy) should learn about the parasite by going through this post:
Marine Ich - Myths and Facts

Next you choose a cure from one of the following two choices:
A Fish Hyposalinity Treatment
or
Copper Medications - Good, Bad, and Ugly

Setup and run a hospital tank for all the fish in your aquarium:
A Quarantine Procedure

Move all fish into one or more quarantine/hospital tanks and follow the treatment guidelines.

You can leave all non-fish marine life in the display system. Keep feeding them and don't put anything into the aquarium for 8 weeks. Without a host, the parasite will die there. ALL non-fish marine life can stay in the display system.

We are here to help you and answer your questions, but we need you to do the reading and learning, since many of your questions are answered in those posts.

 

[King_Neptune]

I guess you missed the part where the Symptoms aren't appearing in a typical fashion.
They show up only after a sand bath, and only in one specific spot in the tank.
The very nature of the parasite is it manifests visibility after impregnation. Not a clean fish going from nothing to covered in white in under two minutes. Ive never head of that, nor read about it. This happens now 2x a day.

Ive read up on Ich, and my situation is slightly contrary to the above link.
Most notably the first link, line #2:

"2. Only time a human can see this parasite with the naked eye is when it is ‘pregnant’ on the fish and has formed a white nodule. (The white spot is about the size of a grain of table salt or sugar). ][NOT ALL WHITE SPOTS MEAN MARINE ICH."

Don't get me wrong, I'm on board with the gut feeling...But Ive never heard of symptom's manifested in this way. That's why I thought it was worth bringing up.

In the end Ill be monitoring close to see where this goes. For now I got a temp aid station setup for relief, and the 55gal hospital is going to be prepped,now I just got to figure out how to entice the elusive goby out of his cave.

 

[King_Neptune]

You can leave all non-fish marine life in the display system. Keep feeding them and don't put anything into the aquarium for 8 weeks. Without a host, the parasite will die there. ALL non-fish marine life can stay in the display system.

Thanks, glad I dont have to do the inverts as well.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

,now I just got to figure out how to entice the elusive goby out of his cave.

You can move him IN his cave, when he comes out in the hospital tank, remove his rock back to the display.

Last week my Powdered Blue tang shows signs of ICH, the rubbing on rocks and eventually the sprinkles which come and go every few days.

This part is the almost absolute evidence of Ich, what happened later is just added symptoms.

 

[King_Neptune]

You can move him IN his cave, when he comes out in the hospital tank, remove his rock back to the display.

Actually the one is the foam wall build that is very securely permanent. Volunteer removal only.


The other is under all of the base rock at the bottom of the pile. He use the whole pile as a network of tunnels he dug. Basically trap him, or remove a dozen pieces to pull him out. If that...then I might as well remove all the rock from the tank and start over....that's why trapping seems to be the best idea. Ill feed him through a trap box...he wont be happy. But he has no choice.

 

[King_Neptune]

This part is the almost absolute evidence of Ich, what happened later is just added symptoms.

Ya,
Looks like a duck....

Just so odd about the other symptoms. At any rate, Im going to do this. Thanks for the help.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Ill feed him through a trap box...he wont be happy. But he has no choice.

I have had excellent success with fish traps, just takes time. Sadly, time is not on your side when dealing with Ich. Many use tiny baited egg hook with no barb or barb filed off. Fishing for blenny :>)

 

[duckmans]

no sick fish

I have had excellent success with fish traps, just takes time. Sadly, time is not on your side when dealing with Ich. Many use tiny baited egg hook with no barb or barb filed off. Fishing for blenny :>)

Have any of you used no sick fish products

http://www.nosickfish.com/product_info.php

These products have worked for me and they are reef safe.

Mike

 

[Herefishyfishy]

"6. No known ‘reef-safe’ remedies work consistently. Many aquarists think a particular remedy works when in fact the fish acquire an immunity or defense against the parasite. It’s easy for any manufacturer to have an independent study done on the effectiveness of the ‘reef-safe’ remedy but they don’t because. . ."
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27003

If the medication is invert safe, it is not harmfull enough to rid the tank of the the Ich parasite.
The symptoms might go away as they always do with Ich, but they will always come back at a later date even with no fish added. These remedies are "snake oil" and are only good for draining ones pocket.