Enough Flow
- Thread starter Jiddy
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Jiddy
Well-known member
I like that setup Krish, but to be honest, i just 2 maybe three powerheads to deal with.
Thanks for your help guys, ill start saving my nickels for some pumps!
And DD dont get me started on why someone should wait 6mo's for a new product to be "adjusted" I had a Xbox go bad when they came out and my buddy had his 360 go bad recently, and both time Mr.MoneyBagGates told us to bug off
Thanks for your help guys, ill start saving my nickels for some pumps!
And DD dont get me started on why someone should wait 6mo's for a new product to be "adjusted" I had a Xbox go bad when they came out and my buddy had his 360 go bad recently, and both time Mr.MoneyBagGates told us to bug off
Al G.
minimum wage,maximum rage
Hey Jiddy, Have you checked out the MJ stream mod thread on RC?
Long ass thread, that's now been split into a third thread. It started as a stream(ala Tunze) mod for MJ, but now people having success with using the stronger Aquaclear powerheads.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=823609
There's also a thread on a DIY Seaswirl type thingy for your powerhead.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=799971
Several Aquaclear mods along with the swirls might be a cheap replacement for your closed loop, while you save up for the Vortech.
Long ass thread, that's now been split into a third thread. It started as a stream(ala Tunze) mod for MJ, but now people having success with using the stronger Aquaclear powerheads.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=823609
There's also a thread on a DIY Seaswirl type thingy for your powerhead.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=799971
Several Aquaclear mods along with the swirls might be a cheap replacement for your closed loop, while you save up for the Vortech.
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liveforphysics
Banned
Al G- Be careful, I got flamed super hard for wanting to make some DIY vortech copys by folks on here...
Anyways, it turns out that makeing your own Vortch DIY copys is as easy as doing the maxi-jet to tunez conversion.
Thick acrilic disk with a Ti rod pokeing straight out of it, then a close fitting carbon fiber tube with an RC boat propeller slipped on the top of the tube. At the bottom of the tube you have a little 2" acrilic disk with 2 cutout for CD player lens magnets, or harddrive magnets, or really any little neodimium magnets positioned across from eachother on the outsides edges. Then stick a cover made from a plumbing bell reducer over the assembly just like what the pic you posted uses.
The next part is even easier, take a 2.5" PVC pipe section about 2.5" long. Stick a cheap RC car toy motor mounted in the center of the little 2.5" PVC tube. Stick the 2" disk with equally spaced neodemium magnets flush mounted into opposite sides to mirror the one you made for the propeller assembly.
If you didnt use super powerful magnets for the torque coupleing, then you might need to glue a couple of permanate magnets in approprate places on both halfs to ensure a solid sticking, but with the magnets I use, falling off seemed pretty much impossible, kinda like one of the very strong algea magnet scrapers. Put a thin little bead of silicone around the surfaces that touch the tank anywhere. Let that dry throughly to act like a vibration dampener and ensure silent operation. Now, the alignment is crucial to long happy and silent operation, so spend some time and get it dead nuts.
Also, the bearings in the cheap motor can also be noisey depending on what you got. Some small motors are really quiet with nice ball bearings and you cant hear them at all. Others sound like annoying whiring sounds, but I would say still more quiet that most closed loop pumps. Anyways, then you just supply it with power from whatever source you want, old computer powersupplys work great as a controler with the addition of a little pot interfaced with the voltage regulation circut for speed control. That way your powersupply can stay under $5. There are a zillion other ways to power them, or make your own controler and wavemaker or whatever, but its 3:52am and im tired of typing.
But yeah, thats how to DIY vortechs for about $35, depending on the quality of components you wana use.
Now I supose I will get flamed to death...
Anyways, it turns out that makeing your own Vortch DIY copys is as easy as doing the maxi-jet to tunez conversion.
Thick acrilic disk with a Ti rod pokeing straight out of it, then a close fitting carbon fiber tube with an RC boat propeller slipped on the top of the tube. At the bottom of the tube you have a little 2" acrilic disk with 2 cutout for CD player lens magnets, or harddrive magnets, or really any little neodimium magnets positioned across from eachother on the outsides edges. Then stick a cover made from a plumbing bell reducer over the assembly just like what the pic you posted uses.
The next part is even easier, take a 2.5" PVC pipe section about 2.5" long. Stick a cheap RC car toy motor mounted in the center of the little 2.5" PVC tube. Stick the 2" disk with equally spaced neodemium magnets flush mounted into opposite sides to mirror the one you made for the propeller assembly.
If you didnt use super powerful magnets for the torque coupleing, then you might need to glue a couple of permanate magnets in approprate places on both halfs to ensure a solid sticking, but with the magnets I use, falling off seemed pretty much impossible, kinda like one of the very strong algea magnet scrapers. Put a thin little bead of silicone around the surfaces that touch the tank anywhere. Let that dry throughly to act like a vibration dampener and ensure silent operation. Now, the alignment is crucial to long happy and silent operation, so spend some time and get it dead nuts.
Also, the bearings in the cheap motor can also be noisey depending on what you got. Some small motors are really quiet with nice ball bearings and you cant hear them at all. Others sound like annoying whiring sounds, but I would say still more quiet that most closed loop pumps. Anyways, then you just supply it with power from whatever source you want, old computer powersupplys work great as a controler with the addition of a little pot interfaced with the voltage regulation circut for speed control. That way your powersupply can stay under $5. There are a zillion other ways to power them, or make your own controler and wavemaker or whatever, but its 3:52am and im tired of typing.
But yeah, thats how to DIY vortechs for about $35, depending on the quality of components you wana use.
Now I supose I will get flamed to death...
sea monkey
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2006
- Messages
- 6
liveforphysics said:Al G- Be careful, I got flamed super hard for wanting to make some DIY vortech copys by folks on here...
Anyways, it turns out that makeing your own Vortch DIY copys is as easy as doing the maxi-jet to tunez conversion.
Thick acrilic disk with a Ti rod pokeing straight out of it, then a close fitting carbon fiber tube with an RC boat propeller slipped on the top of the tube. At the bottom of the tube you have a little 2" acrilic disk with 2 cutout for CD player lens magnets, or harddrive magnets, or really any little neodimium magnets positioned across from eachother on the outsides edges. Then stick a cover made from a plumbing bell reducer over the assembly just like what the pic you posted uses.
The next part is even easier, take a 2.5" PVC pipe section about 2.5" long. Stick a cheap RC car toy motor mounted in the center of the little 2.5" PVC tube. Stick the 2" disk with equally spaced neodemium magnets flush mounted into opposite sides to mirror the one you made for the propeller assembly.
If you didnt use super powerful magnets for the torque coupleing, then you might need to glue a couple of permanate magnets in approprate places on both halfs to ensure a solid sticking, but with the magnets I use, falling off seemed pretty much impossible, kinda like one of the very strong algea magnet scrapers. Put a thin little bead of silicone around the surfaces that touch the tank anywhere. Let that dry throughly to act like a vibration dampener and ensure silent operation. Now, the alignment is crucial to long happy and silent operation, so spend some time and get it dead nuts.
Also, the bearings in the cheap motor can also be noisey depending on what you got. Some small motors are really quiet with nice ball bearings and you cant hear them at all. Others sound like annoying whiring sounds, but I would say still more quiet that most closed loop pumps. Anyways, then you just supply it with power from whatever source you want, old computer powersupplys work great as a controler with the addition of a little pot interfaced with the voltage regulation circut for speed control. That way your powersupply can stay under $5. There are a zillion other ways to power them, or make your own controler and wavemaker or whatever, but its 3:52am and im tired of typing.
But yeah, thats how to DIY vortechs for about $35, depending on the quality of components you wana use.
Now I supose I will get flamed to death...
man i cant wait to see this in action
smjtkj
Member
Liveforphysics, please post pics of this design. Also a parts list would be greatly appreciated! This sounds awesome!
Mike
Mike
Cause I like to hear myself talk...
A closed loop takes water from below the water line and delivers it likewise, hence the term closed. If the water goes into a vessell such as a sump then it is an open loop. The difference is that water entering a sump must be pushed by pressure back up to the display. In a closed loop the pressure of the water needed to overcome gravity leaving the system is directly proportional to the gravity force of the water entering the system. The result is no head loss other than that from friction (pipe walls and elbows). So a pressure rated pump is not necessary. This is the advantage of a closed loop over a system that runs through a sump. A 3000 gph pump will deliver close to 3000 gph.
Now about flow. There are lots of formulas in this hobby that set guidelines which are useful but have constraints. You know the inches of fish per gallon thing. Great for beginners and their new guppies but tends to lose something as things get more advanced. In the flow arena we use turn over rate. 10x, 25x, 50x total tank volume. It gives a good starting point for buying equipment and planning but is a poor indication of actual flow. Your flow is going to be static (firing 400 gph into the front glass is a static 400 gph) and dynamic (if you run your hand down one side of a bathtub and get a vortex going and then stop, you can come back some time later and the water is still swirling although not recieving any more energy). So if your pump is divided by 4 and is delivering 1200 gph then each jet is delivering 300 gph. Now according to the formula if you are running say a 50 gallon tank you have a 24x turnover rate, but the force of the water leaving the jets is not enough to create a dynamic flow so you are not able to take advantage of that free energy. A properly design closed loop with a 1200 gph pump can actually create as much flow as a poorly designed 3000 gph powerhead system.
What I would consider as a second option to your problem is something like a oceansmotion diverter on your system, so the entire force of the pump is shot through one or two outlets in an alternating fashion. I might also consider exchanging the 2 mag12's with one Sequence Dart.
Mike
A closed loop takes water from below the water line and delivers it likewise, hence the term closed. If the water goes into a vessell such as a sump then it is an open loop. The difference is that water entering a sump must be pushed by pressure back up to the display. In a closed loop the pressure of the water needed to overcome gravity leaving the system is directly proportional to the gravity force of the water entering the system. The result is no head loss other than that from friction (pipe walls and elbows). So a pressure rated pump is not necessary. This is the advantage of a closed loop over a system that runs through a sump. A 3000 gph pump will deliver close to 3000 gph.
Now about flow. There are lots of formulas in this hobby that set guidelines which are useful but have constraints. You know the inches of fish per gallon thing. Great for beginners and their new guppies but tends to lose something as things get more advanced. In the flow arena we use turn over rate. 10x, 25x, 50x total tank volume. It gives a good starting point for buying equipment and planning but is a poor indication of actual flow. Your flow is going to be static (firing 400 gph into the front glass is a static 400 gph) and dynamic (if you run your hand down one side of a bathtub and get a vortex going and then stop, you can come back some time later and the water is still swirling although not recieving any more energy). So if your pump is divided by 4 and is delivering 1200 gph then each jet is delivering 300 gph. Now according to the formula if you are running say a 50 gallon tank you have a 24x turnover rate, but the force of the water leaving the jets is not enough to create a dynamic flow so you are not able to take advantage of that free energy. A properly design closed loop with a 1200 gph pump can actually create as much flow as a poorly designed 3000 gph powerhead system.
What I would consider as a second option to your problem is something like a oceansmotion diverter on your system, so the entire force of the pump is shot through one or two outlets in an alternating fashion. I might also consider exchanging the 2 mag12's with one Sequence Dart.
Mike
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Krish
RF STAFF
Very informative Mike and welcome to RF!
Jiddy
Well-known member
Thread HiJackers
Krish
RF STAFF
LOL...What can you do with um Jid? They're everywhere...
Jiddy
Well-known member
Well i got two seio 2600's and those things kick out some flow, i took down one of my CL's because its a terrible design. How should i point the two PH's? I have to admit i really dont like them since you cant vary the speed or anything customizable with them, i need a TUNZE with a controller....
