My2heartboys
Well-known member
I am sorry for your loss. As to water and fish analysis-I have no clue. You might check with your LFS or a veternary in your town. They might know where to send it.parajack said:
Anne
Fish Moving Time Please!
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Anne
steve-s
Well-known member
Jack,
Very sorry for the loss.
I'm not sure if the med you used was the cause or not. My guess, copper+formaldehyde was more than the fish could handle. I have no idea how the nickle sulphate factors in. I have never used/heard of this med before. Does it say what form of copper it contained?
As for the water sample and the necropsy, are there any Universities in Alaska with marine studies? They would be a good place to start as would some local vets.
http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/zoology/ResFishMar.html
Cheers
Steve
Very sorry for the loss.
I'm not sure if the med you used was the cause or not. My guess, copper+formaldehyde was more than the fish could handle. I have no idea how the nickle sulphate factors in. I have never used/heard of this med before. Does it say what form of copper it contained?
As for the water sample and the necropsy, are there any Universities in Alaska with marine studies? They would be a good place to start as would some local vets.
http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/zoology/ResFishMar.html
Cheers
Steve
NaH2O
Well-known member
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Jack - I am terribly sorry about the loss. This thread has been a great read for me, and I've leared alot about hyposalinity treatment with the posts from you and steve.
Steve - is there any chance this could have been some type of fungus? I'm curious about the bottom of the tank covered in the same material.
Jack - was the fish sliming alot?
Steve - is there any chance this could have been some type of fungus? I'm curious about the bottom of the tank covered in the same material.
Jack - was the fish sliming alot?
steve-s
Well-known member
Possible but not likely. Jack didn't respond to the link I posted about the other PBT thread but I am leaning towards something similar in nature. A fungal infection would not spread this quickly and more commonly, problems that look "fungal" are usually bacterial. True fungal infections are extremely rare and not normally considered for that fact.NaH2O said:
Cheers
Steve
parajack
Well-known member
Steve,
I was hoping that something in my discription might provide some insight into the probable cause of the condition leading up to my final 'euthanizing' medication. I just want to be able to make some sense of what happened. Have you ever seen ick manifest itself in such a quick and lethal way? A otherwise healthy fish near death just a few days after exiting 7 weeks of accurate hypo? No other symptoms before the ick / hypo treatment? Let me describe what it looked like when I picked him up off the tank floor. He was covered with white "debris"... I want to say debris because it wasn't anything like the consistent white spots of ick. The pieces were of varying size and shape and a different consistency then ick. The area on the floor within a few inches all around him was also covered with this same white stuff. I'm pretty sure that the fish was losing slime right up to his death also. It doesn't look like I'm going to be able to get an actual analysis. Plz give it your best shot, or maybe fwd this on to someone who might want to give it a go if you think its worth it. Also, I looked at that thread again, but this time enlarged the thumbnail jpg of the PB. http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11044 This looks very much like what he had, only he was covered 3 or 4 times as much. Would this stuff fall off the fish onto the floor of the tank? When you say 'worm', you mean hundreds of small worms that are living just below the skin surface? This might explain the 'depigmentation' spots which were visible a week or so before he came out of hypo...I'm wishing I hadn't treated him now..... I knew that the stuff was probably leathal, even though I was following directions. He wasn't eating, but he was still swimming around just fine. Seemed like the right thing to do at the time.
Jack
I was hoping that something in my discription might provide some insight into the probable cause of the condition leading up to my final 'euthanizing' medication. I just want to be able to make some sense of what happened. Have you ever seen ick manifest itself in such a quick and lethal way? A otherwise healthy fish near death just a few days after exiting 7 weeks of accurate hypo? No other symptoms before the ick / hypo treatment? Let me describe what it looked like when I picked him up off the tank floor. He was covered with white "debris"... I want to say debris because it wasn't anything like the consistent white spots of ick. The pieces were of varying size and shape and a different consistency then ick. The area on the floor within a few inches all around him was also covered with this same white stuff. I'm pretty sure that the fish was losing slime right up to his death also. It doesn't look like I'm going to be able to get an actual analysis. Plz give it your best shot, or maybe fwd this on to someone who might want to give it a go if you think its worth it. Also, I looked at that thread again, but this time enlarged the thumbnail jpg of the PB. http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11044 This looks very much like what he had, only he was covered 3 or 4 times as much. Would this stuff fall off the fish onto the floor of the tank? When you say 'worm', you mean hundreds of small worms that are living just below the skin surface? This might explain the 'depigmentation' spots which were visible a week or so before he came out of hypo...I'm wishing I hadn't treated him now..... I knew that the stuff was probably leathal, even though I was following directions. He wasn't eating, but he was still swimming around just fine. Seemed like the right thing to do at the time.
Jack
steve-s
Well-known member
The only guess I could make would be either a Monogenean or rarely a Digenean trematode. It would definately make the depigmentation spots but unfortunately it would not be a conclusive characteristic of any particular parasite only that one might be present. A parasitic copepod could also be suspect but given the hypo treatment, if strictly external it should not have survived.
It would be hard to say either way without a microscopic examination of the parasite.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_FA033
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA091
Cheers
Steve
It would be hard to say either way without a microscopic examination of the parasite.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_FA033
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA091
Cheers
Steve
NaH2O
Well-known member
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If the tang did in fact have either the Monogenean or Digenean trematode infection, then would that mean the other fish in QT with the tang are at risk of developing the same infection? Should the fish that went back out to the display go through another period of QT?
steve-s
Well-known member
Digeneans for the most part are injested with foods infested at the time, Monogeneans are typically tranfered fish to fish or from the "offspring" which require no intermediary host. Fortunately this is one of those situations (if worm related) where it is not a foregone conclusion all tank mates would be infected although still at risk. If a fish's immune sytem was strong enough and it's environment otherwise healthy and stress free, it can stave off infestation.
The frequencey in which the PBT was infested would moreso be from the confined space and relative lack of additional hosts. The fish returned to the main could still end up showing this problem but there is just as good a chance they will not. I would personally play wait and see. If treatment was needed, a series of SW formalin baths would be the most effective approach for Monogeneans.
Cheers
Steve
The frequencey in which the PBT was infested would moreso be from the confined space and relative lack of additional hosts. The fish returned to the main could still end up showing this problem but there is just as good a chance they will not. I would personally play wait and see. If treatment was needed, a series of SW formalin baths would be the most effective approach for Monogeneans.
Cheers
Steve
