help me plumb my tank, and with some other ideas please

[Krish]

Just incase this helps...Here's the sump layout and so forth for this tank.

attachment 1 - This is the return manifold I made for this tank. It is pvc painted black again and some lockline attachments you can see on the end.

attachment 2 - Return again... You can use something similar to this for your closed loop over the tank as well. Some people however just use pvc pipe and make a candy cane looking piece with a 90 on the end and use them for outputs rather than spend on the lockline. Whichever works for you.

attachment 3 - Shows the oveflow going to the sump

attachment 4 - Shows the sump layout. I used the flex pvc here to make a gradual bend to the sump like you wanted without all of the 45's and 90's. The red arrow is pointing to it. The green arrow is pointing to the return line that is vinyl hose that goes to that manifold in attachement 1.


Hope some of this was of use to you. If you have any questions just let me know

 

[Krish]

BTW, I didn't proof read so if there are any spelling mistakes etc, blame my little girl She's been nagging me the whole time :lol:

 

[trillyen]

:shock: WoW talk about canidate for the member of the YEAR award :lol:

man that was soo helpful and so hilarious when you said your lil gurl was nagging you the whole time lol, man that had to take you a half hour. Thanks alot

i dont remember saying that i wasnt gonna use 45 and 90s though ill probably use some of everything along with flex tubing, ive decided to just go ahead with the pumps that i do have now and start the tank up (undrilled and later upgrade to bigger and better pumps, so krish i would like to go with your idea as long as i can go back later and take off a return or to and add a bigger return but that shouldnt be that big of a problem should it

scooterman, i think i will add some high baffles this time also cause i hate when my cheato and stuff gets sucked in my dang returns tahts so annoying to pic out!!

ohh krish just wanted to say i love how youve plumbed your tanks especially your 38 that skimmer sitting on the outside of it is awesome, im gonna try to find some kind of way to plump my 125 gl super skimmer up to my sump and this other generic skimmer i got to catch what it dont get also.Im gonna use your skimmer out side the sump as a diagram to go by and we will see how it turns out.All i should need is some kind of flex pvc tubing and im gonna have to figure out a way to do the return.

Ok here is what i physically and technically want in a nut shell

As you all know i have hob over flows well i want pvc tubes coming from those running down behind the sump and then some kind of elbow or something extending in over the sumps in take chamber then a piece of hard pvc going all the way down to the bottom of that chamber under all the live rock and everthing , and i want holes drilled in that particular pvc tube

In the next chamber will be my macro and all that and sand, but out of this chamber is where i would like my supply of water going to my skimmer to come from VIA some kind of Pump/pvc taking it to the skimmer while the skimmer is putting it back in the last chamber where the return pump is,same scenerio on the other side of the tank but backwards because i want both of the returns in my tank that are coming back in to be right beside each other facing opposite directions,, so one sump the water will come in from the left side and in the other water will come in from the right side but prodominately the same set up skimmers and all

As far as the CL goes im really not decided, but im pretty sure im gonna have 2 of the same things that you have on your 75 krish, but i wanna use 2 maxijet 1200s cause thats all i got right now would that be ok for starters i actually do have 2 aquaclears that are rated at about 800 gph and i may just use those and save the maxijets for the old 75 gallon.

not sure how im gonna set it up exactly yet i may just have those lil lock things all over my tank cause im not gonna with the pvc end look like you said in your posts earlieri may do the returns towards the back of the tank on the top tank braces and the closed loop on the front of the top braces towards the front of the tank i dont know though

thanks none the less you guys really got me about as close as im gonna get without the pvc, i didnt have time to get it today but at the latest ill be doing some plumbing on sunday

thanks everyone!!!

but this thread is far from being finished with questions

thanks for answering all my quetions guys and gals!!!

 

[dailydriven911]

Do you still have this tank? I love it!

K...Here's what I did on my 38gal cube. I did the closed loop the first time using just one pump and wanted more flow so I re-did it without tearing too much apart and added in another pump. This is the reason for all of the 90's and 45's. Should have re-done the whole thing, but was lazy at the time

Attachment 1 - Red arrows point to the suction for the closed loop. As you can see the pumps are out of the water. A hole was drilled through the tank, a bulkhead was installed which allows you to plumb in the pump. The green arrow shows a true union ball valve which allows you to remove the pump but not flood the place. You simply shut off the pump, close all of the valves and release the fitting which stops the water from flowing. Then once you finish cleaning your pump or whatever, you reconnect, open the vlaves and resume blowing up the place with flow The pink/purple arrows point to the 4 outputs to the tank which are through bulkheads again. So ther is one suction and 2 outputs for each pump. The yellow arrow is not related but is the return nozzle for my sump and the white arrow is not related either but is the drain for the sump coming from the overflow.

attachment 2 - This shot shows the output coming from the top 2 outputs that I tried Y adaptors on to split the flow.

Attachment 3 - Shows all the holes drilled into the tank for the closed loop without the bulkheads in yet.

attachment 4 - The red arrows show the strainers for the suction for the closed loop attached to the bulkheads and the yellow arrows shows the lockline attachments for the outputs in the tank.

attachement 5 - Shows a side shot of the back of the tank so you can get a better look at the bulkheads and how much space everything takes up. I'll grab a few more shots for you. Give me a sec again

 

[Krish]

so krish i would like to go with your idea as long as i can go back later and take off a return or to and add a bigger return but that shouldnt be that big of a problem should it

If you're talking about a bigger closed loop pump it won't be a problem once the pump doesn't require a bigger plumbing size. You could use reducers etc, but it will put more strain on the pump, possibly heat it up and also you won't get the full potential of the flow if the plumbing is too small so keep that in mind.

ohh krish just wanted to say i love how youve plumbed your tanks especially your 38 that skimmer sitting on the outside of it is awesome, im gonna try to find some kind of way to plump my 125 gl super skimmer up to my sump and this other generic skimmer i got to catch what it dont get also.Im gonna use your skimmer out side the sump as a diagram to go by and we will see how it turns out.All i should need is some kind of flex pvc tubing and im gonna have to figure out a way to do the return.

Thanks! The 75 gal was the one with the skimmer sitting outside though It was the first sump I showed a pic of with the closed loop pump sitting above the sump. I also had a chiller plumbed into both setups. The 38gal, I just sat the skimmer on a shelf to raise it to the proper level. Both ways worked great! Main reason for sitting it outside on the 75gal setup though was because at the time, I did'nt have any space in the sump for the skimmer. That sump was taken down, baffles were added, chambers were added and so forth so it was a work in progress(LOL)

As far as the CL goes im really not decided, but im pretty sure im gonna have 2 of the same things that you have on your 75 krish, but i wanna use 2 maxijet 1200s cause thats all i got right now would that be ok for starters i actually do have 2 aquaclears that are rated at about 800 gph and i may just use those and save the maxijets for the old 75 gallon.

Well for starters, I don't think the Maxi jets can't be used externally in a closed loop and secondly, if they were able to be used, the flow would probably never reach the tank if the pump sat in the stand and if it did, it would just trickle You will need a pump atleast rated about 700 gph or so to be worth your while one designed for this application. Maxijets are nothing more than powerheads and not really a pressure rated pump. My closed loop on the 75gal was a mag950 (950 gph) and the flow was pretty good. On the 38gal I had (2) 1506 gph pumps so each nozzle got roughly 750 gph of flow. The reason why you'd want to go with a good sized pump is because you can lose a lot of flow through bends etc and if you are worried about too much flow, there are always ways to reduce the flow if need be without changing the pump. The maxijets however, won't work for a closed loop. I'll grab a few pictures for you of how I used maxijets on a nano cube and even then, I could have used more flow and the pumps were in the tank :shock:

Previously posted by dailydriven911
Do you still have this tank? I love it!

Nope! Sometimes I wished I did though (LOL) I sold the entire setup with the chiller and got an aquapod after which I chopped up and did all sorts of weird stuff to. Going to grab a few pics

 

[Krish]

Here's what I did with maxijets just to show you. This is about as far as I would go with maxijets where flow is concerned. Anything more than this with the flow needing to travel up etc wouldn't be worth it.

All I did was cut the back out of the aquapod, installed a new blue back with overflow cut into the center, installed 3 bulkheads and attached 3 maxijets from the back and used the lockline for flow. Pretty simple, but like I said, this was only a 24gal nano (nothing compared to your 125gal by far) and I used 3 maxijet 1200's sitting in the tank and eventually ended up adding in a tunze nano stream to get more flow

 

[james734]

You'd be wasting your time plumbing a CL with MJ. You're not going to get any flow from it. I just got done doing a CL on a new tank going in the garage and I have a Sequence Hammerhead on it rated at 5800 GPH and it's about the same size as your tank. Plus like Krish said there not designed to be used out of the tank. You'd have more water on the floor leaking from then it would be putting back into the tank.

You'd be better off just putting the MJ's in the tank for now until you can afford to purchase a bigger pump for a CL.

Sorry man. Hate to knock down one's idea but in my mind that's not going to work.

 

[krisfal]

5100 gph my GOSH
thats crazy i bet that thing was a months mortage for me

had to be

Actually I got what I feel was a good deal on a factory remanufactured one on E-bay. However even retail they are less than $300. Unless your mortgage is really cheap . . . .

It sounds like the last few post are indicating that your pumps will probably not work like you were hoping, some just do not have the umph to raise the water up and over the tank, I had that issue with a pump I got to feed a UV sterilizer, it just couldn't pump the water up and over the tank.

Here is where I bought my pump (the guy has lots for sale, and this link is for the same kind I bought), I bid halfway between what is showing as current bid and the buy it now price, I initially was outbid, but then was offered a second chance at the price I had initially bid (My son says often a friend of the seller will try to drive up the price by bidding, with no intention of buying) http://cgi.ebay.com/Dolphin-Amp-Mas...yZ103440QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[james734]

Here is where I bought my pump (the guy has lots for sale, and this link is for the same kind I bought), I bid halfway between what is showing as current bid and the buy it now price, I initially was outbid, but then was offered a second chance at the price I had initially bid (My son says often a friend of the seller will try to drive up the price by bidding, with no intention of buying) http://cgi.ebay.com/Dolphin-Amp-Mas...yZ103440QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is Dolphin... The shipping from address matches Dolphin Pumps.

Hopefully it won't leak over time. Amp Master are known for leaking seals.

 

[trillyen]

wow krisfal thats a hell of a good price for a return of that magnitude but if it was gonna leak im glad you didnt get it

As far as me using the maxis i was just gonna hoyst them and hide them on the inside of the tank some where but now my mind is wondering off into another direction now

im gonna look at lowes and see if they have any good size returns tomorrow and maybe try to get one that is built for out of water use i think thats the route im gonna go for now since im just begining i may also look on ebay, boy that 100 dollar huge pump has got me thinking

but i would like to look into a moving return that moves back and forth as the water is returning to the tank

are those real expensive and does the ocean runner pump come with everthing i need to do that????

 

[Krish]

but i would like to look into a moving return that moves back and forth as the water is returning to the tank

I had one on my 75gal (a sea-swirl). I think I paid somewhere in the area of $150 for it. They have 3 sizes which all handle different flow ratings. The one I had was the 3/4 and could handle up to 800 gph. Here's a pic of it in the attachments

 

[trillyen]

wowthat sea swirl looked about like what im wanting and 150 aint that bad, but man i cant believe how close you got those halides to the tank my god id be scard of a loud pop!!

i went to lowes today and did some research but didnt buy any thing, but did find out i am gonna need some hot and cold pvc, and they looked at me crazy when i asked them ifthey had any lockline like you 38 gl return head were built well lowes dont carry those i guess

my lfs guy recommended to me a spray bar around the top of the tank and about a 1800 to 2000 gph pump on the old 125 and a 3600 gph pump on the 75 reef spray bar, i think thats the directionm i wanna go in cause wouldnt that kinda be killing 2 birds with 1 stone

Also all i have to start up right now is a 500 gph pump, and i think you told me that i would need at least a 800 gph pump for me to use pvc correct, is that true or can i go ahead and start plumbing up the temporary 500 gph pump???

My 125 gallon has a middle left and right side in which two braces create the center part of the tank on the very top like every one already knows i wil have 2 refuges1 going to the left side and 1 going to the right side so i fifure i can have 2 seperate spray bars around the top right and left sideofthe tank and a sea swirl in the middle of the tank blowing back and forth.

I think this is definetly the design i want on my 125 fpwlr tank, but im still up for recommendations on the 75 if need be i may just stick with the 500 gph returns on the 125 with a possibility of going up to maybe a 800 or 1000 gph pump

Id be happy with a 2000 gph return on my 75 gallon, im not sure if i want a spray bar on my reef though, i may just go with another sea swirl!!!!

can i do a closed loop on a sea swirl if i have a external pump or could i just plumb like a 10 gallon aquarium into my sumps some how and have it putting bac the water from that water source???? Do you understand what im asking???/

any way for the 75 it will still be plumbed but it will pobably just have a sea swirl and like a tunze or some thing unless i can figure out how to plumb another tank into the sump on my 75 gallon and have another water source for a second sea swirl i think that would look kinda cool!!!

 

[james734]

No need for the hot and Cold PVC. Just use the basic old schedule 40 white PVC.

 

[trillyen]

is it cheaper or something??? no matter if thats all i need thats what ill get i just kinda went in there not knowing ANYTHING i really needed well the name of anything any way even thouigh i know you guys have told me a million times already!!!

 

[trillyen]

wowthat sea swirl looked about like what im wanting and 150 aint that bad, but man i cant believe how close you got those halides to the tank my god id be scard of a loud pop!!

i went to lowes today and did some research but didnt buy any thing, but did find out i am gonna need some hot and cold pvc, and they looked at me crazy when i asked them ifthey had any lockline like you 38 gl return head were built well lowes dont carry those i guess

my lfs guy recommended to me a spray bar around the top of the tank and about a 1800 to 2000 gph pump on the old 125 and a 3600 gph pump on the 75 reef spray bar, i think thats the directionm i wanna go in cause wouldnt that kinda be killing 2 birds with 1 stone

Also all i have to start up right now is a 500 gph pump, and i think you told me that i would need at least a 800 gph pump for me to use pvc correct, is that true or can i go ahead and start plumbing up the temporary 500 gph pump???

My 125 gallon has a middle left and right side in which two braces create the center part of the tank on the very top like every one already knows i wil have 2 refuges1 going to the left side and 1 going to the right side so i fifure i can have 2 seperate spray bars around the top right and left sideofthe tank and a sea swirl in the middle of the tank blowing back and forth.

I think this is definetly the design i want on my 125 fpwlr tank, but im still up for recommendations on the 75 if need be i may just stick with the 500 gph returns on the 125 with a possibility of going up to maybe a 800 or 1000 gph pump

Id be happy with a 2000 gph return on my 75 gallon, im not sure if i want a spray bar on my reef though, i may just go with another sea swirl!!!!

can i do a closed loop on a sea swirl if i have a external pump or could i just plumb like a 10 gallon aquarium into my sumps some how and have it putting bac the water from that water source???? Do you understand what im asking???/

any way for the 75 it will still be plumbed but it will pobably just have a sea swirl and like a tunze or some thing unless i can figure out how to plumb another tank into the sump on my 75 gallon and have another water source for a second sea swirl i think that would look kinda cool!!!

just wondering

im picking up another overflow friday, and im gonna pvc it on sunday

thanks for the help guys!!!

 

[Krish]

wowthat sea swirl looked about like what im wanting and 150 aint that bad, but man i cant believe how close you got those halides to the tank my god id be scard of a loud pop!!

LOL! Some people actually have theirs closer to the water. About the sea-swirl, if you decide to get one, make sure you post here for a link on what to do with it before connecting to anything, but a closed loop setup (ie if you want to use it on a return pump from your sump). The reason why is because the sea-swirl doesn't come with any way to break the siphon once the feed pump to it is cut. With it being on a closed loop, there is no problem because it is a closed setup, but if you were to use it on a return pump that is sitting in your sump, the second you turn off the return pump that feeds it, water will start to drain back into your sump from the sea-swirl back through the pump, until the head of the nozzle that shoots out the water from the sea-swirl comes above the water line and sucks in air to break the siphon. What that means is on a tank your size, you could loose many gallons of water on your floor easily. You will have to drill a small hole in a certain spot on your sea-swirl to break the siphon quickly for you and I have a link to where I did it. Also, keep in mind you will have to do the same with any return you use for your sump return. Some nozzles you buy come with the hole already, but if you are making up your own, you will have to drill it yourself.

i went to lowes today and did some research but didnt buy any thing, but did find out i am gonna need some hot and cold pvc, and they looked at me crazy when i asked them ifthey had any lockline like you 38 gl return head were built well lowes dont carry those i guess

LOL! You won't find that stuff any place like that Here's a link to where I got mine. http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=lockline

Also all i have to start up right now is a 500 gph pump, and i think you told me that i would need at least a 800 gph pump for me to use pvc correct, is that true or can i go ahead and start plumbing up the temporary 500 gph pump???

No man...500 gph is fine. Infact you can use any size pump you want with pvc plumbing. I just said about 800 gph or so because some pumps lose a lot of pressure the further up they have to pump and with a lot of bends in the lines etc so you may plumb in a 500 gph pump, but at the tank you may only get about 300 gph and I know from my experience, I like atleast 600 gph coming out of each nozzle. The pic I showed of my 38gal with the water spraying out of the nozzle was about 750 gph per nozzle.

can i do a closed loop on a sea swirl if i have a external pump or could i just plumb like a 10 gallon aquarium into my sumps some how and have it putting bac the water from that water source???? Do you understand what im asking???/

The best way to use a sea-swirl is on a closed loop, just don't exceed that particular models flow limitations. Like I mentioned before, they have 3 sizes that handle different flow so make sure your pump matches it. Also, remember what I mentioned about the sea-swirl having no way to break the siphon so I think in the inital design of the sea-swirl, a closed loop was probably what they had in mind.

 

[trillyen]

hey thanks krish and james and everyone else that chipped in, i finally got a break and went to my local reef store and bought a used mag 500 gph pump with some plumbing already attached

i guess having it in person gave me the best understanding of how to build the plumbing set up on my tank

here is what i ran across and bought for 45 bucks!!!

ohh i also got a much better perspective and understanding of how to do a closed loop

im just gonna use an in line pump if and when i do decide to use a closed loop, and have the out take with the little strainer on it so the fish dont get sucked in and the return plumbed to a couple different places.

ill probably make a replica or something similar for the other side of the tanks plumbing, and maybe get even more complex on the reef

! last and final question though!!!

Is there ANY benifit to having any shut off vals or anything like that???

thanks for the help guys

 

[Krish]

Shut off valves are good to have on both sides on the pump (inlet and output) after a union (remember that big fitting I showed you a picture of on post #38 attachment # 3)? You can't see my valve as it is just on the outside of the stand, but that will be the way you seperate the pump from the closed loop without having a flood. You simply shut off the pump, close both ball valves, and twist the unions loose and the pump is released. Then all you do when you want to hook the pump back up is the same process backwards (ie re-thread back on both unions, open valves and plug in the pump). Good luck with the new pump!

 

[trillyen]

thanks krish you are the man

ill wanna get some 45s also seeing as 90s slow my rate of flow alot!!!

 

[trillyen]

Hey krish or any one when i primer the plumbing do i just use a rag and kinda just rub it down inside and out???

where do i cement the pvc at inside and out???

im kinda stumped????