soyadrink
Well-known member
thats actually what every1 I showed the picture to said... I was just not sure if its appropriate but I guess it is a thread started by jonathan
so where is the expert?
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- Thread starter jnarowe
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thats actually what every1 I showed the picture to said... I was just not sure if its appropriate but I guess it is a thread started by jonathan
so where is the expert?
jnarowe
Beer-a-holic
Hey, I resemble that!
jnarowe
Beer-a-holic
I can hear it now. I will be picking this thing up from The Shark Reef today and I hope I can find the right person to send it to. Please pass the word I need someone who can ID it and take half the credit.
Boomer
Well-known member
I got a PM from Leslie. She has been very taxed a work. She agrees with me that it looks like a sponge and linked to me the same speices I did She does not know what the particles are and said they are not from any sponge. Here is an extra pic she gave me
http://www.mondomarino.net/ricerca/index.asp?view=dett&q=&p=28&f=10&cat=7
She does not know what the particles are and said they are not from any sponge. Here is an extra pic she gave mehttp://www.mondomarino.net/ricerca/index.asp?view=dett&q=&p=28&f=10&cat=7
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jnarowe
Beer-a-holic
Great pics. So here's the issue. The particles and "tissue" came from this thing. No other way about it. And it continues to create them I am contemplating a water change. It has become a little more translucent over the last couple of weeks. Can you ask her if I can send this to her for a closer look?
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
If it consumes, it must have waste of some sort.
No way a simple sponge nor tunicate experiences immaculate consumption(sorry)
No way a simple sponge nor tunicate experiences immaculate consumption
(sorry)
Boomer
Well-known member
No way a simple sponge nor tunicate experiences immaculate consumption
No one is saying they did and they don't. The issue is sponges or acsidians can eject wastes of this size and especially sponges. Just check on theri biology.
jnarowe
Yes I can ask her and I'm sure she is interested, as that is what she does in the lab, ID mairne inverts at the Natural History Museum.
No one is saying they did and they don't. The issue is sponges or acsidians can eject wastes of this size and especially sponges. Just check on theri biology.
jnarowe
Yes I can ask her and I'm sure she is interested, as that is what she does in the lab, ID mairne inverts at the Natural History Museum.
jnarowe
Beer-a-holic
OK. LMK. BTW, it is looking a little shriveled and I think I should change out the water. It would be better to get definitive instructions from her. I can change out the water and send the particles to her as well, or she may want me to leave it as it is.
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
They do also excrete undigested organic matter, perhaps also could be ejecting undigestables?
http://www.bbm.me.uk/portsdown/PH_321_Sponge.htm
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...charge+waste+product&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us
http://www.bbm.me.uk/portsdown/PH_321_Sponge.htm
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...charge+waste+product&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us
jnarowe
Beer-a-holic
or parts of itself since there is no "food" in the bottle.
soyadrink
Well-known member
Thats what I was going to suggest. thats also why it could have become more translucent and shrivelled up.
Boomer
Well-known member
Of coruse they eject/excrete things. Again it is the size of the particles and the question is where did they come from of said ??? in question. It may not even be a sponge and we are all being misled.
LeslieH
Well-known member
Hi guys -- sorry for not responding earlier.
I don't have much of a clue either. Some sponges can move either by contraction or by re-organization of their body tissue, extending in one direction as they contract in the other http://www.int-res.com/abstracts/meps/v185/p239-255/
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/209/15/2839
and movies of a Tethya moving: http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/207/26/4515/DC1
Slight correction Boomer - I identify worms at the museum. Doing other types of inverts is a hobby so I'm nowhere near as good at it. But still, I'd be happy to take a look at this oddball.
The catch is that I want it dead so if that bothers you don't send it. Another catch is that on wednesday I head off to Saipan for 2 weeks of field work so I won't have a chance to look at before I go. If that's all okay put it into 70% alcohol. High proof white rum or vodka will do (at least 150 proof) or isopropyl (better known as rubbing alcohol purchased from the drugstore). The ratio of alcohol to flesh should be about 5 to 1 for good preservation. It needs to be in a small leakproof container. I tape the lid then triple bag containers in small ziplocks & tape the outermost one for more security as the post office frowns on leaking alcohol. Put that into a crush-proof box. My address is Leslie Harris/Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County/ 900 Exposition Blvd/ Los Angeles, CA 90007.
I don't have much of a clue either. Some sponges can move either by contraction or by re-organization of their body tissue, extending in one direction as they contract in the other http://www.int-res.com/abstracts/meps/v185/p239-255/
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/209/15/2839
and movies of a Tethya moving: http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/207/26/4515/DC1
Slight correction Boomer - I identify worms at the museum. Doing other types of inverts is a hobby so I'm nowhere near as good at it. But still, I'd be happy to take a look at this oddball.
The catch is that I want it dead so if that bothers you don't send it. Another catch is that on wednesday I head off to Saipan for 2 weeks of field work so I won't have a chance to look at before I go. If that's all okay put it into 70% alcohol. High proof white rum or vodka will do (at least 150 proof) or isopropyl (better known as rubbing alcohol purchased from the drugstore). The ratio of alcohol to flesh should be about 5 to 1 for good preservation. It needs to be in a small leakproof container. I tape the lid then triple bag containers in small ziplocks & tape the outermost one for more security as the post office frowns on leaking alcohol. Put that into a crush-proof box. My address is Leslie Harris/Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County/ 900 Exposition Blvd/ Los Angeles, CA 90007.
mmn_usn
bblhd reefer
Saipan is a great place... would love to go back. Have fun while out there.
On the things being dead... wouldn't it be easier to evaluate a creature if you can watch it move and eat? Just asking the question
On the things being dead... wouldn't it be easier to evaluate a creature if you can watch it move and eat? Just asking the question
You know with this talk of keeping it in a container without any water changes, it honestly LOOKING quite a bit like a sponge, the droppings along side it, it becoming more translucent and now withered... to me it sounds like the thing is disintegrating slowly because of the lack of nutrients, and that's what the 'poop' is
LeslieH
Well-known member
Thanks.
Yes and no. From what jnarowe's said there's not much to be learned from watching it. I'll probably have to dissect it to figure out what it is. As it sounds like it's in distress if it's not preserved soon there won't be enough internal structure left to examine.
jnarowe
Beer-a-holic
Sorry I missed these last few responses. I did a water change on it yesterday as it appeared to be deteriorating. I will send it along.
Should I wait until you get back?
Can I put it in more alcohol than the 5:1 ratio?
Watching it would be like watching paint dry, only less interesting.
Should I wait until you get back?
Can I put it in more alcohol than the 5:1 ratio?
Watching it would be like watching paint dry, only less interesting.
LeslieH
Well-known member
Yes, please wait. The 5 to 1 ratio is just to ensure there's enough alcohol for good preservation, more is not a problem. Since it will be sitting in alcohol for a couple of weeks it should be well preserved and you can drain most of the fluid off before sending to keep the package small.
jnarowe
Beer-a-holic
Ok...thank you so much. So I just went down to preserve it and found a dramatic change. Since I change out the water for new last night, it is now unshriveled. That also points to sponge right?
Please let me know when you get back or else I will forget. I will preserve it his afternoon. Should I also strain and preserve the tissue and droppings, or leave them in SW?
Please let me know when you get back or else I will forget. I will preserve it his afternoon. Should I also strain and preserve the tissue and droppings, or leave them in SW?
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