Ideal Reef water temperature?

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Another thing to keep in mind, temps can and do fluctuate rapidly in a shallow reef. Not only with thermoclines, but storms and rain can make for fast changes from a hot sunny day. Currents coming up from deeper water through crevasses. I have swam across a shallow reef and gone from hot to cool in seconds. Deeper water on the reef is much more stable hour to hour and day to day. Be that as it may, the natural reefs have a vastly more stable set of parameters than even the best of our little tanks could hope to achieve. Best to keep as many as possible stable. Any rapid change in our less than perfect environments can weaken the inhabitants and predispose them to other problems.
 
People have been keeping their tanks anywhere between 77-83F for years without any problems. Why change things now? You can't compare a little glass box to the ocean. You need stability. That's all I have to say about the topic.
 
I've had my tanks rise to 88 during the summer months and stay up that high for a few days. Unfortunately, I don't have a chiller. I crank up the AC and turn the lights out a bit earlier to cool things down at night. However, these past 2 summers have been really hot so sometimes they don't cool down below 86 by morning. So far, I've seen no ill effect from these temp spikes to any of my SPS, Clams or Anemones. Maybe I'm just lucky...lol.
 
I still think that disolved oxygen is a big issue for our (generally overstocked) tanks. As temp increases, so does the metabolism of the oxygen-consuming animals. But the solubility of oxygen in the water goes down. So the tank is getting closer to "the edge". One small glitch (power outage, pump failure, etc) and a higher-temperature tank is more likely result in suffocation of the inhabitants than a similarly-stocked tank at a lower temperature.

Reefs, on the other hand, are lightly-stocked. And have huge influxes of "new" water that is not subject to a pump failure.

I am not saying that a reef tank cannot be perfectly healthy at a temp in the upper 80's. It is just more at risk of a crash.

We do a lot of things to balance the risks in our tanks. For me, shooting for a lower temperature is one of them.

Heres a quote from Greenbean on the oxygen issue from this thread http://www.reefaquariumforum.com/reefkeeping-myths-t3397.html

The granddaddy of all reefing myths- Temperature!

The ideal temp for reef tanks is about 77-80
Well this certainly isn't a bad range, but it's not necessarily ideal either. The worldwide average for coral reefs is a wintertime low of 77 to a summertime high of 86. The overall yearly average is 82. The average temp in the coral triangle here reef diversity is highest (and the majority of the livestock in the hobby is collected) is around 82-83 depending on the source. The thermal optimum, which is the temperature where a species grows best, has been tested for a handful of corals and for almost all species falls between 82-84.

Cooler temperatures are better because they give you more margin of error in case of an emergency
The threshholds for thermal damage in corals are set by acclimatization. The rule of thumb is 2-4 deg F above the normal seasonal maximum temperature. Whether your tank normally maxes out at 78 or 86, the corals will still only handle prolonged exposure to about 2-4 degrees above that.

Sometimes oxygenation of the water is cited as contributing to this effect too. While this is somewhat true, the effect is very minor. Increasing the temperature from 78 to 86 only reduces the oxygen saturation point by 7%. That still leaves you at about 300% of the safe level of oxygen. The temperature effect on metabolic demand for oxygen does not follow a clean curve in the sense that you can say higher temperatures demand more oxygen as people often insist. Again, this has to do with acclimatization and can get somewhat complicated.

The temperature on reefs is stable
Not by a long shot. A typical reef varies at least 3-8 degrees per day with some varying as much as 15. Because these were only measured over fairly coarse time periods, it's likely that short-period changes that occurred quickly were missed. These are not slow changes occurring as the sun heats the water either. In fact it has been noted that the minute-to-minute variation is frequently as much as half of the yearly variation. The origin of these fluctuations are shifting currents, tides, and internal waves. As a result, variation actually increases with depth, contrary to what most hobbyists might imagine.

Stable temperatures are essential for healthy corals and fish
This one seems to have originated with studies done in temperate freshwater fish that showed increases in disease when they were exposed to rapidly fluctuating temperatures. The same has not been demonstrated for tropical marine fish, much less for corals. Given the unstable nature of wild reefs, you would not expect this to be true for reef organisms. In fact, it has been noted that larger fluctuations help protect corals from temperature stress.
 
I am talking about drastic changes not changes period. Nothing wrong with changes in temperature. It is drastic changes that is the problem over a short period of time. Your temperature rises 5 degrees in 20 minutes due to a malfunctioning chiller and then back down 5 degrees the same way and you will probably have a problem. Your temperature drops 5 degrees slowly over the course of 12 hours and you would have less issues. Stability is what I am talking about or a gradual change.


If you look at what happens out on a wild reef, quick drastic temp changes are exactly what happens. The problems come from us trying to control these changes and trying to make everything stable. The example you used is a perfect example of why keeping our tanks at a static temp is not good, if a heater sticks or a chiller fails your screwed.

Wouldn't you like to be able to run your tank without the added electrical cost of a chiller? Well you can. You cant do this over night but over a few months turn the set point up on your chiller. Set the heaters so the tank doesn't drop below 79/80 and allow the lights to heat the tank in the day. Start off by setting the chiller to kick on at 81, then next month 82 then 83 when you get to 84 turn the chiller off. If your tank heats up more then 84/85 from the lights then turn your heaters down a degree or two so the tank cools off more at night or set your chiller to run when it hits 84 or whatever temp you want.
 
The argument here is what do we know works well for a glass cage, not what might or should work. Let the experienced do the testing & let the questionnaire get answers more suited for their success!

Hows that for an argument?:confused:

Not good:razz:

I want to bring this up again since the OP asked for this specifically.

Anyone have a good answer with some technical back up?

Why would you take an animal that comes from water that averages about 84 with daily/hourly/by the minute swings that can range from 78 to 90 and place it in water at the lower end of its range and never change the temp?

This is one of the myths that has been handed down forever and it has no merit.
 
"i thought bleaching events occurred with sea temps of 82 or a little more."
82F is just about the average temperature for all the reefs in the world. Some reefs have bleached at that temperature but these have been reefs that were colder reefs, where the normal temperatures peaked at about 80F. World wide, about 40% or thereabouts of reefs never get as cold as 80F. Raise your system's temperature slowly, and there will be no problem. Once it is warmer, remember that for each 2 deg F rise in temperature, the animals' metabolic rates go up by about 10%. You WILL have to feed more!

"if i didn't have to worry about my tank getting to 86 i could probably run it without a chiller saving a bunch of money both short and long term."

Definitely.

I found other studies where the average temps were lower than 82 as Ron says, I can't fine it but when I get home I'll look again but I would also consider corals & people have show higher growth rates at lower temps.
In the last link I posted shows a range from 77 to 84 degrees.
 
Why would you take an animal that comes from water that averages about 84 with daily/hourly/by the minute swings that can range from 78 to 90 and place it in water at the lower end of its range and never change the temp?

This is one of the myths that has been handed down forever and it has no merit.

Maybe it's because half of the marine life anyone has in their tanks were born and raised in aquariums and didn't come directly from the ocean so they try to stick within the range of temperature we call "proper" or the norm. The same goes for frags. How many people here get their corals and fish directly from the ocean, that is wild caught? People have been keeping their tanks within a certain range and try their best to keep the temp stable there. I can assure you that anyone posting on this thread shoots for a target temperature and does their best by using either heaters or chiller to keep it within a certain range and doesn't welcome big swings. I find it hard to believe anyone here keeps their temperature at 90F
 
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Not to be argumentative, but what 1 animal is being discussed? I do agree that our tanks are usually inhabited by animals from different climates, however, for the most part, they're all from Tropical Reef climates. Even then, tropical reef climates vary from one ocean to another and even from different locals. I guess that's where the ideas of setting up biotopes would be beneficial. If we were to design our tanks around a specific area, then we would be more able to match that areas climate. True, most of our corals are tank raised, I HOPE. However, with most fish still not able to be bred in captivity, the majority of our fish are still coming from the wild. A great reason to increase our attempts to understand and attempt to breed more species of fish in captivity.

I would like to research more into this, since I don't use a chiller, to see if the fluctuating temps actually do benefit us by acclimating our life to become more hardy and more able to handle the hot extremes. Especially since I'll soon be setting up a 113 cube with MH lighting and no chiller. This will be my first MH tank.

I am really interested in what I've read about changing bulb Kelvin rating, instead of wattage to increase depth penetration, without adding heat!!
 
Hmmm interesting results....although 199 votes out of the 24713 members on RF.....

I do agree, that until more research is done, these temps are probably what we should aim for. Also, I'm sure that A LOT of research has been done in the past. However, it's amazing what new research can teach us. It does seem that some of the links that have been posted in this thread are from very renowned hobbyists and professionals that just might lead us to believe that static temps or very small variations in tems aren't as critical as we've thought...and maybe aren't as healthy either. Just wondering if we've all been putting too much stress and there for spending money, on something that's not as critical as we've all thought. I see people that have much stricter temps and find it funny when they start talking about temps for their own tanks and have decimal points in their temps...lol. For example, I had one local reefer recently tell me that they keep their tank between 77 and 78.5. This is in a HUGE tank that incorporates a chiller the size of my entertainment center...lol. They also had a few 1000W MH lights though...6 or 8 I think.
 
Shows us a way to increase lighting without increasing temp or the need for more temp controls.

Curious. Why try control temp if it doesn't matter?
 
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That's my point....maybe it doesn't matter as much as we've all thought it does. Yet, we're spending money on chillers....maybe even not giving our animals the light they need due to worrying about heat issues...though those can sometimes be overcome by using different bulbs to decrease wattage needs. Maybe research will show us that we don't need to worry as much about temp control as we've always thought. Maybe research will show what we've all thought is right and temp control is important. Maybe it'll show us that mild temp swings and higher temps are not only NOT stressful to our tank inhabitants, but actually improves their ability to survive changes that we can't control.
 
Again there is much more to a closed system. How do fluctuating or high temps affect bacteria. Id also like to know what year the numbers posted were tested. If its in our life time then I'd question the accuracy of the information since temps have risen drasticly over the years and reefs ar dying due to high temps.

Don
 
I have let my tank move up and down throughout the day and have never had an issue with my fish or corals. I think everyone will agree 78 is cold for a real reef. Anyone, including myself ( i was born and raised in hawaii), that has swam through a reef will find the water is almost 84 degrees even in the winter. Ah I love Seattle :p. You will also notice that fish move from one area to another that may have a temp swing of 5-7 degrees due to a number of factors, riptides, lagoons, depth changes, and reef fissures. Sandollar I like your if it aint broke don't fix it approach, but I think people are just interested if they can make their inhabitants more temp change resistant by not maintaining such a stringent regiment. We like in a city with the low of 40 degrees and a high of 85, I don't think Seattlelites are in danger of either boiling or freezing their tanks in a matter of minutes. Try running your tanks at the 82-84 range I think you will like the results.
 
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