Tony_Romano
Well-known member
Should I use carbon on Reef?
My goal is to lower NO3.
My goal is to lower NO3.
kent Carbon
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mmkeeper
Well-known member
Welcome to rf. Its almost always good to run carbon. But to lower nitrates you have to look at the cause. Give us some more information about your system. What are your water parameters?. How long has the system been running? What type of system are you doing? Reef? Fowler? Fish only?How is your system stocked?
Tony_Romano
Well-known member
7 years, mixed reef, lightly stocked. Mg is a tad low every thing else is ok. NO3 tends to run high - I am doing about everything possible to reduce. Currently looking at carbon, thinking of adding some ganualar vs kent.
mmkeeper
Well-known member
I don't think carbon will help that. What is high NO3 to you? What brand test kit? Deep sand bed or bare bottom? Sump? How many gallons is tank? Are you using RO/DI water?
Boomer
Well-known member
To add, the Kent carbon is a VPC (Vapor Phase Carbon) and you want a LPC (Liquid Phase Carbon). Get a granular carbon like TLF Hydrocarbon or SeaChem Labs Matrix carbon. In short, carbon does not do much for Nitrates. This will help you understand the Nitrate issue better.
Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm
Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm
Tony_Romano
Well-known member
25-40ppm NO3 - like to see 5ppm
One tank has DSB 6+ (90 gal) and one is about 3-4" (215 gap) common sump
Algae in sump - Midwest Denitrifier - yes on RO
Some of my reading suggests that carbon can help NO3, seems wrong to me.
Tank is actually very healthy (crashed last year) Just my sps frags struggle.
One tank has DSB 6+ (90 gal) and one is about 3-4" (215 gap) common sump
Algae in sump - Midwest Denitrifier - yes on RO
Some of my reading suggests that carbon can help NO3, seems wrong to me.
Tank is actually very healthy (crashed last year) Just my sps frags struggle.
Tony_Romano
Well-known member
On the Carbon what is difference? (I believe you just wondering why Kent sells "bad" carbon)
Jan
Well-known member
Boomer, that's very interesting. How does a consumer tell whether a carbon is vapor phase, liquid phase, "strong" (fast acting), mild (longer acting), etc.?
Boomer
Well-known member
Carbons are designed and manufactured for different purposes, there are more than 100 kinds of them. Almost all revolve around LP and and VP operation. They are dependant on the original raw material, i.e., bitum, coconut shell, wood, Lignite etc and the grain size and shape. Larger grain sizes are for VP and smaller for LP.
Bitum can be used for either, so it mostly a grain size thing. CS is mostly for VP and Wood and Lignite are mostly for LP. Large pellets, like the Kent, were designed for VP operation and especially pellet carbons. It is no that they don't work they will, they just are not very efficient. Kent's pellet carbon is just a selling gimmick and that is all it is.
Most carbon from the actual manufacture come with a data sheet or you can get one. That data sheet and its carbon parameters. i.e., Iodine #, Molasses #, mesh size, ash etc, etc, tell all about that carbon.
What is the deal with grain size ? Air has little density or mass and is a "gas" and is easily diverted, such would be the case with small grain size, as the air finds a way around the carbon more. Water is much more dense, with more mass, so it is not as easily diverted, thus smaller grain size.
We want to try to stay a least 8 mesh or smaller. Meaning 12 mesh is smaller in grain size than 8 mesh. 8 mesh = 2.38 mm. For us, it is quite often smaller than 10 mesh. In general for LP the smaller the grain size the better it is. However, when it gets to small it becomes very user unfriendly. Imagine a carbon that is 100 mesh or 0.149 mm. About the smallest we go for our application is 12-40 mesh. Meaning the carbon has a range in grain size of 12- 40 mesh and most prefer more like 12-20 mesh or even 10 -20 mesh.
Bitum can be used for either, so it mostly a grain size thing. CS is mostly for VP and Wood and Lignite are mostly for LP. Large pellets, like the Kent, were designed for VP operation and especially pellet carbons. It is no that they don't work they will, they just are not very efficient. Kent's pellet carbon is just a selling gimmick and that is all it is.
Most carbon from the actual manufacture come with a data sheet or you can get one. That data sheet and its carbon parameters. i.e., Iodine #, Molasses #, mesh size, ash etc, etc, tell all about that carbon.
What is the deal with grain size ? Air has little density or mass and is a "gas" and is easily diverted, such would be the case with small grain size, as the air finds a way around the carbon more. Water is much more dense, with more mass, so it is not as easily diverted, thus smaller grain size.
We want to try to stay a least 8 mesh or smaller. Meaning 12 mesh is smaller in grain size than 8 mesh. 8 mesh = 2.38 mm. For us, it is quite often smaller than 10 mesh. In general for LP the smaller the grain size the better it is. However, when it gets to small it becomes very user unfriendly. Imagine a carbon that is 100 mesh or 0.149 mm. About the smallest we go for our application is 12-40 mesh. Meaning the carbon has a range in grain size of 12- 40 mesh and most prefer more like 12-20 mesh or even 10 -20 mesh.
Damsel13
Well-known member
Boomer,
The hard thing for me is finding anyone at the store that knows the different properties or if they do are willing to answer questions. Just from using different carbons it seems like the pellets don't work as well as the stuff that looks like chipped wood. I think you said that already though.
The hard thing for me is finding anyone at the store that knows the different properties or if they do are willing to answer questions. Just from using different carbons it seems like the pellets don't work as well as the stuff that looks like chipped wood. I think you said that already though.
Boomer
Well-known member
They dont' and do not have data sheets and the aqaurium companies are not going to give you one. Just for for TLF Hydrocarbon, SeaChem Matrix, Black Diamond or Elos and you are good to go.
packer
Well-known member
What about the Warner Marine brand? Do you rate it same, better, or worse than TLF or Matrix? I was using Matrix and for some reason read about ESV and switched because I thought it was better. I do not like the ESV as much as the Matrix and was going to switch back, but thought about trying the Warner Marine Brand. Your thoughts...
Also would it benefit to also run Purigen along with the carbon or not much of a difference in the total outcome versus extra cost of the purigen in addition.
Also would it benefit to also run Purigen along with the carbon or not much of a difference in the total outcome versus extra cost of the purigen in addition.
Last edited:
Boomer
Well-known member
I forgot the Warner is also good stuff. Yes the Purigen is fine to use and will take out some things the GAC may not.
ESV
It is not better than Matrix, it is on par with Black Diamond.
ESV
It is not better than Matrix, it is on par with Black Diamond.
Tony_Romano
Well-known member
Thanks Boomer - I did some googling and reading today - your summary pulls it together.
Thanks Boomer for the enlightening post
I manage to buy carbon meant for water treatment plant with the data sheet as follow;
Granular Activatd Carbon Bitum coal
iodine No. 1017mg/g
Total Ash content 10.63%
Methlene Blue 188mg/g
carbon tetrachloride (CCL4) No. 63%
Bulk density 480 g/L
Hardness 97%
Moisture 1.07%
Mesh size
>8-Mesh 0.9%
<30-Mesh 1.0%
inside the general information:
The compounds that are the most highly attracted are typically organic compounds,volatile organic compounds (VOCs) and halocarbons such as trihalomethane (THM) compouns and other process wastes.
Its superior adsorptive capacity and surface make it particularly attractive for the removal of organics from wastewater, while its size makes it appealing where low pressure drop is needed. It is suitable for drinking water and food grade applications.
My friend told me that it is not advisable to run this same like our Rowa using Fluidized reactor as it will clear our nutirents and deprive food (is this true ) ?
Since i got it cheaply, is it advisable that i aggressively use the carbon to clean my tank water ?
Thanks in advance for your advise
I manage to buy carbon meant for water treatment plant with the data sheet as follow;
Granular Activatd Carbon Bitum coal
iodine No. 1017mg/g
Total Ash content 10.63%
Methlene Blue 188mg/g
carbon tetrachloride (CCL4) No. 63%
Bulk density 480 g/L
Hardness 97%
Moisture 1.07%
Mesh size
>8-Mesh 0.9%
<30-Mesh 1.0%
inside the general information:
The compounds that are the most highly attracted are typically organic compounds,volatile organic compounds (VOCs) and halocarbons such as trihalomethane (THM) compouns and other process wastes.
Its superior adsorptive capacity and surface make it particularly attractive for the removal of organics from wastewater, while its size makes it appealing where low pressure drop is needed. It is suitable for drinking water and food grade applications.
My friend told me that it is not advisable to run this same like our Rowa using Fluidized reactor as it will clear our nutirents and deprive food (is this true ) ?
Since i got it cheaply, is it advisable that i aggressively use the carbon to clean my tank water ?
Thanks in advance for your advise
Boomer
Well-known member
My friend told me that it is not advisable to run this same like our Rowa using Fluidized reactor as it will clear our nutirents and deprive food (is this true ) ?
Your friend does not know what he is talking about
GAC has been my pet hobby for like +30 years. No, there are or will still be more nutrients than you know what to do with still That GAC is fine but we even use others that are better, such as ROX, TLF Hydrocarbon and Matrix are all better than that carbon.
Your friend does not know what he is talking about
GAC has been my pet hobby for like +30 years. No, there are or will still be more nutrients than you know what to do with still That GAC is fine but we even use others that are better, such as ROX, TLF Hydrocarbon and Matrix are all better than that carbon.
DonW
R.I.P.
I just started test driving Rox. Seems to work real well so far. Also the stuff that the filter guys sell is good stuff. I used it for awhile before trying the Rox and will probably go back to it. The Rox is to expensive for as much carbon as I like to use.
Don
Don
Curtswearing
Mantisfreak
Boomer.....
Two Thumbs Up!!!
Make this puppy a sticky.
Two Thumbs Up!!!
Make this puppy a sticky.
My friend told me that it is not advisable to run this same like our Rowa using Fluidized reactor as it will clear our nutirents and deprive food (is this true ) ?
Your friend does not know what he is talking about
Thanks ! I ask becuase i feel safe with carbon. (he do have some bad experience before and i wonder if his carbon source might have some issue)
I came across this statement in the properties of activated carbon.
Activated Carbon , when coming out of the kiln tends to be a bit basic, with a pH around 8. Too high a pH indicates too much contaminants. Too low a pH, especially for acid washed activated carbon, means that the acid has not been properly rinsed away. Most activated carbon are specified for a pH of 6-8.
Do you know of any carbon which is actually acid washed ?
Sorry to ask so many question
Boomer
Well-known member
Don
Yes, that stuff Jim has is great stuff. It is a Bitum, acid washed, pH neutral and water rinsed. Bitum does not and can not get better than that. Besides, it is real not GAC but C-GAC. If I told where he got he would kill me :lol:
Wonder
Do you know of any carbon which is actually acid washed ?
Well yes. thefiltreguys C-GAC is acid washed, as is ROX and TLF Hydrocarbon. The BEST carbon IS ACID washed
Activated Carbon , when coming out of the kiln tends to be a bit basic, with a pH around 8. Too high a pH indicates too much contaminants. Too low a pH, especially for acid washed activated carbon, means that the acid has not been properly rinsed away. Most activated carbon are specified for a pH of 6-8.
This is true in general but not always For example, not all GAC is activated by a kiln or Steam Activated but is treated with chemicals and is called Chemical Activation. All GAC should be rinsed well in FW before use, which pretty much cancels all that out. However, we do care if it is chemical activated, as these carbons are usually high in phosphate as they are activated with phosphoric acid. THIS NOT ACID WASHED CARBON. Acid washed carbon is washed with either Hydrochloric or Nitric acid.
Sorry to ask so many question
Well then stop asking
This should keep you busy
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24720&highlight=activated+carbon
http://reefcentral.com/forums/searc...=9116072&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending
Yes, that stuff Jim has is great stuff. It is a Bitum, acid washed, pH neutral and water rinsed. Bitum does not and can not get better than that. Besides, it is real not GAC but C-GAC. If I told where he got he would kill me :lol:
Wonder
Do you know of any carbon which is actually acid washed ?
Well yes
. thefiltreguys C-GAC is acid washed, as is ROX and TLF Hydrocarbon. The BEST carbon IS ACID washed Activated Carbon , when coming out of the kiln tends to be a bit basic, with a pH around 8. Too high a pH indicates too much contaminants. Too low a pH, especially for acid washed activated carbon, means that the acid has not been properly rinsed away. Most activated carbon are specified for a pH of 6-8.
This is true in general but not always
For example, not all GAC is activated by a kiln or Steam Activated but is treated with chemicals and is called Chemical Activation. All GAC should be rinsed well in FW before use, which pretty much cancels all that out. However, we do care if it is chemical activated, as these carbons are usually high in phosphate as they are activated with phosphoric acid. THIS NOT ACID WASHED CARBON. Acid washed carbon is washed with either Hydrochloric or Nitric acid.Sorry to ask so many question
Well then stop asking
This should keep you busy
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24720&highlight=activated+carbon
http://reefcentral.com/forums/searc...=9116072&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending
