Let's Talk About ~Algae Control~

[Electrokate]

I have had cyano come and go in several tanks. Used to try and clear it with chemicals which worked in 3 tanks and in the 4th led to a bad reaction, so I don't do it anymore. Ultralife seemed ok but can crash ph, the other brand really messed up a tank long term. Either way these products don't really stop the stuff because it's so easy to get it again from new livestock additions. Why bother risking the tank health with chemicals when it will be reintroduced, there has to be a better way.

I have a few too many tanks so the one(s) with no fish or coral sort of tends to get neglected. I am noticing the tanks with the worst ph fluctuations/alk levels and salinity problems are the tanks with the most algae, maybe because the fluctuations harm the beneficial bacteria. Maintaining the alk and ph from the beginning seems to speed the cycle process and lower the spikes of ammonia and nitrite. So stabilizing chemistry may help with reducing algae.

Latest experiment is to siphon out every pod and bug I can see in the healthy tanks and acclimate then dump them into the algae ridden tanks. Two of my tanks never need scraping because of the pods, I like that I am finding nassarius really helpful too in tanks with sand, they thoroughly turn over the sand and dislodge algae.

I am interested in hearing more about this sugar idea. Might not do it but it sounds interesting.
Kate

 

[mojoreef]

Gbr a dsb is designed to facilate the removal of P via the harvesting of algae. It truely doesnt have another means of export for P. N on the other hand it has many pathways to sink it into cycles.
If you are not getting them reduced then some thing is not working correctly in that system. If you have not blow off the rocks in long time then that is definately one issue. Reduction will occur on top of the rocks in the detritus itself, however it wont go past nitrate, thus the result you are seeing. For this you need to get back on it and try to maintain that blowing once every couple of weeks.
On the sand bed you wont see the detritus disappear right away. Bacterial reduction is a very slow process.

Do you have a sump on this system??


Mike

 

[gbr]

Gbr a dsb is designed to facilate the removal of P via the harvesting of algae. It truely doesnt have another means of export for P. N on the other hand it has many pathways to sink it into cycles.
If you are not getting them reduced then some thing is not working correctly in that system. If you have not blow off the rocks in long time then that is definately one issue. Reduction will occur on top of the rocks in the detritus itself, however it wont go past nitrate, thus the result you are seeing. For this you need to get back on it and try to maintain that blowing once every couple of weeks.
On the sand bed you wont see the detritus disappear right away. Bacterial reduction is a very slow process.

Do you have a sump on this system??


Mike

Mike, I do have a sump and fuge. This is really unsettling because a DSB was "sold" to me as somewhere that would harbor anerobic bacteria that would keep me nitrate free. I am pretty upset about this because pulling a DSB isn't like changing lights. Now if this boils down to more husbandry/maintenance, I guess I will step up to the plate and do it. But in reading your excellent post about P (how it gets there and how to get rid of it), it would seem I can't get rid of P with a DSB.

By blowing the rocks off, I am knocking detritus down to the sand bed so basically I am moving my algae fuel down correct. Where I have to live with it on the sand bed. My sand is like silt. Any attempt to try to remove algae or detritus on the sand will cause a sand storm and deposit it right back on the rock. Nothing I have found eats cyano.

I am rambling because I have questions and really want to understand but I am so reactionary. I will start by blowing off the rocks and going from there. I recently created a better bubble trap so I could remove my filter sock. I suppose I should put that back on before I start blowing.

 

[Scooterman]

Cayno is probably the easiest to harvest IMO, it sucks out fast, I'd suck it into a micron sock that I'd stick into the sump, after I sucked it all out I'd go wash the sock.

 

[LakeEd]

Travis,

A suggestion for you;

I've seen your tank, but most people here haven't a clue what you are working with. Start a new thread about YOUR issues with Algae Control... and in that thread include a good picture of your overall tank (possibly one from each side, since its a room-divider), then some close ups of the specific areas you are concerned with.

I feel adding a picture of your entire tank will help people get an idea of exactly where YOU and your tank setup are in the evolution cycle of "learning about Salt Water"... and perhaps help them with specific answers for your situation, vice some of the generalizations you seem to be fighting thru.

 

[gbr]

You know I only get time for forums while I am at work Ed. I wish I could just run home and take a picture now...maybe when I win the lottery and get to quit this job.

Scooterman, I agree when it is on the rock, but it adheres to the sand and I seem to pull up a chunk of sand every time I try to suck some out. My rock is about 70% covered with corals. Every time I try to get in there I seem to break an SPS colony or knock a clam over or...all that while the CBB and the tangs bite my arms looking for food. I LOVE maintenance.

 

[NaH2O]

Mike - I'm not sure if you saw the post where gbr said his water change water was registering for nitrates, as well. I just didn't want that tidbit to be forgotten.

 

[LakeEd]

You know I only get time for forums while I am at work Ed. I wish I could just run home and take a picture now...maybe when I win the lottery and get to quit this job.

Hey T-man... I know how that works. Guess we both just need to hit a Lotto... then can sit working on our dream tanks for the rest of our lifes! *Grinz*

I just know how AWESOME your tank, and setup are guy... because I'm lucky enough to live by you. I also know you have grown beyond a "Beginner" status on your setup.

Because I know these things 1st hand, I can read your questions more in the light of what you are asking than a lot of people here can. Most of the questions about algae or the nitrogen cycle... are from someone very new in the Salt-water realm. You aren't guy! I know this... YOU know this. A picture is worth a 1,000 words!!!

 

[mojoreef]

Mike, I do have a sump and fuge. This is really unsettling because a DSB was "sold" to me as somewhere that would harbor anerobic bacteria that would keep me nitrate free.

Trust me it will go anerobic!!!! lol and truely while still viable they should keep the nitrates to a very low level. Usually they are not an issue with a new bed.
Tell me a little bit more about your tank?? how old is it?, did you cure your live rock in it? and how is the flow

Mike

 

[gbr]

The problem is I was a noob when the tank was set up...I only refered to RC and didn't get all the info needed from the "right" sources. To answer your questions.

Tank has been up about 18 - 20 months. Sand bed is silicate sand blasting sand (I was told by Ron and others that would be no problem??) ranging from about 4 to 7 inches deep depending on where the d$%& clownfish have pushed the sand. Rock was very fresh uncured (Dr. Mac via distributor in LA to me) rock that was barely cleaned and placed in the tank to cure. I let it cure and skimmed for about 1-2 months until there were no detectible nitrates then I started to stock. Went through diatoms and cyano at about 3-6 months after startup that went away about as magically as they appeared (post main cycle mini-cycles I guess). I have been basically algae (except for bubble) free for 1 year. During that time chaeto never grew in my fuge. Actually it wained so I thought I didn't even have enough nutrients to support macro. Mushrooms and rics and zoos were "melting" away, again I thought not enough nutrients. SPS flourished. Nitrates were very low...less than .1ppm but still detectible. Phosphate was almost always undetectible. (I ran a little Phospahte killer in my carbon bag which I stopped about 3 months ago)

Tank is a 180. flow is from 3 seio 1100s and about 2200 gph from the return. sump is under the house. mr2 skimmer runs 24/7 on the wet side. I try to keep it at about 1-2 gallons effluent a day.

while still viable

That worries me. I am only 2 years into this and have a beautiful tank full of life.

I will post pics later as the algae is not really that bad. small quarter sized spots to about 5x that in a couple of areas but is still troubling. There are sulfide (?) black areas under the sand and the clowns digging in the sand under the carpet anemone worry me and may be a problem but without tearing my tank apart I really can't do anything about it.

 

[morgan]

ok so ive read most of this and my main problem is hair algae and lots of it its doing my head in and ive thought about taking off my canister filter because i think this could be the main problem with my nitrates and phosphate problem i have quiet a bit of rock and thought may be remove some of it to increase water flow but am afraid that if i lose the canister filter it will ruin my tank worse then what it is doing now
my tank has been running for almost 3 years i got it 2nd hand so ive had it for almost a year im kinda lost with what to do about it and im almost at the end of my teather
i know that high nitrates and phosphates are to blame but is my canister filter breeding them like crazy a vote for how many say i should ditch the filter and run just the skimmer and live rocks help please i dont want to have to pack in this tank cause hair algae has me down

 

[Haole]

What is in your canister filter?
At any rate, I would think that as long as you clean your canister filter on a regular basis it shouldn’t be an issue.
Post some more specifics about your tank, morgan so everyone can get a better understanding of your issue and can better pinpoint areas that could be of help to you.

 

[morgan]

thats the other thing how do u clean the filter it has lots of differnt stuff in it can i empty if of water and or will the benifical bactieria suffer from being dry for ceart amount of time because i have wanted to giv it a deep clean but not sure how to do it

 

[mojoreef]

Gbr nothing sounds to distressing so dont worry to much. As nikki restated your salt mix has nitrates in it so that would be one thing to change up.
What I would suggest is just removing some detritus to give the bacterial system a bit of a break. To do this I would turn off all the pumps(exect for the return and set up a syphon hose that goes into your sump, have the hose pour into something like a 5 micron sock prior to going into the sump. From thier I would just go around the sandbed and stir up the top one inch of the sand bed (that would be what you want to maintain as arebic). When you are stirring the bed, have the syphon hose just above it and suck out any crude that comes into the water column. It will take some time but it will also directly export detritus/nutrients and ease the bioload on the bacteria.
I am surprised that Ron said it was a good idea to use sandblast sand. Usually he deters folks from using sharp edged sand grains as they tend to irratatethe critters moving through them. Sulfide is pretty normal in a sand substraight, it only turns black with the presence of iron.

I would change your salt mix and if your up to it give the export a shot.


Mike

 

[morgan]

well to day i emptyd my canister filter of everything but coral chip and ceramic pireces and it was really dirty sh*t water that came out
i wish i had a sump to do that but did somthing similar with a very good kinda filter sock and reused the water that ran through the sock in to a buket did this twice and took out a large portion of rock and put them in a buket with wiht fresh salt water and an air bubbler as i was informed to day by my lfs that even if i got rid of n and p problems that the algae would stop growing but would not recced and die so i i need to starve it of light heance the buket with half my rock in it, he said couple of days in there it would die and then that rock would be good again so we shall see
on the salt mix i dont use one my lfs supplys filterd seawater for 5c a liter which is cheap and time saving i also get fresh water and water full of calc and carbonate hardness
my tank looks fairly bare now but i will do sum more water changes and removie more crude from the right side of the tank tomorrow and then cums my favorite part no jokes aqua scaping and i might be able to catch that blasted falco hawk fish that likes to eat my shrimp and baby hermit crabs if you guys want to see a pic i can take one but thats if i get a request
thanx to everyone on this site and to my lfs owner who is a pompus prick but hes still very much in the know and good at what he does
love this site and thats why its my homepage
thanx everyone from downunder love morgan

 

[LakeEd]

Morgan,

It sounds like you have a game-plan in operation there... and hopefully it will soon be showing you results! Please keep us posted (we are always nosie, when it comes to everyone's tank... don't ya know! *grinz*)!

 

[morgan]

cheers man i guess its time for more pics lol

 

[Paul B]

A month ago in Kauai, I had such a thick dense cloud of tangs pass over me that I actaully got dissoriented from things going dark. They were moving over the reefs picking every little scrap of algae growing on the reef. In more protected areas, there were definately macro-algaes growing. Many places of the reef that were very shallow <2ft had a nice fuzzy coating to them of some mossy sort of material.

Back to the topic. This is one thing that most people do not address or even know about and it is (IMO) the biggest hole in the knowlege in this part of the hobby. There is plenty of information written about what we should do in a reef tank but very little information about a real reef which is after all what we are trying to imitate albeit woefully. We do not want algae growing on our corals because it will kill them and just look bad, but on a reef, if you ever go diving at night (which I have dozens of times) you will see a totaly different scene than when you dive in the day. Some areas will be totally covered in urchins that you don't see in the day. These urchins scrape the rock down to , well rock. The vast sea then takes the urchin poop and disolves it in unmeasurable amounts of water most of which is far too deep to grow algae. In the deeper regions the waste is removed (or converted) by bacteria. We cannot do the same thing in our tank. We don't have urchins covering every inch or an ocean to process waste. Algae is there because it is supposed to be there. It is part of any healthy reef. We need a way to let the algae grow out of our tank, not on our corals but if we try, or even attempt to eliminate all algae by "unnatural" means we may end up having reefs not as healthy as we think they are. There are ways to acomplish this.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[Electrokate]

Hmm. Trained urchins? I know... latest DIY project: how to modify a Roomba for reef tank use!
Kate

 

[morgan]

so what are u saying paul b let hair algea grow?
dose anyone scrape or brush aglae of rocks in a differnt rock