lets talk Reef Foods

[little fishes]

OK lets talk reef foods-zooplankton substitutes etc. There are more and more options now for feeding your reef (a good thing). Some are better then others and so many things to consider. SO I would like to here from people about what they have had success with as far as foods for mixed reef environments, and from experts if any happen upon this thread about recommended foods with good nutritional profiles and what a good profile is anyway.

so bring it on what foods do you like and have had succuss with?

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[little fishes]

My feeds and some questions

I also have some more specific questions/food for thought. First my tank: the current biotope is salt water (I have LPS, SPS, zoas, clams, rics, fish, shrimp, tube worms) with this wide range of organisms I try to give a varied diet. I grow Isochrysis, tetraselmis, and nanochloropsis to feed. I feed formula one, freeze dried plankton(sanfran brand), and nori daily for the fish. I also feed about once or twice a week (on different days) dts oyster eggs, cyclops-eeze, and mysis for various corals. I occasionally target feed some of the lps with small chunks of silversides or krill too. All the inhabitants are doing well with these foods but I am always looking for ways to improve there diets.

Importance of particle size?
The phyto gives me particle sizes of about 2-20 microns, the oyster eggs about 45 microns, the Cyclops about 800, and the others larger- so I am missing a partical size that seems to be important for many corals and would like to fill the gap between 45-800 microns. I have considered culturing rotifers (about 100-400 microns), freeze dried rotifers, as well as some of the mixed commercial products including zoplan (10-250 microns), golden pearls(available in many sizes), artificial zooplankton/rotifers (50-100 microns-available at dynamic aquarium supply). I think live rotifers would definitely be a good addition but what of the commercial foods if any would be good to add?

Additives?
Are ingredients like yeast and egg to be avoided always? What else should be avoided? I like to see foods with lots of HUFAs/omegaFAs/phospholipids etc, and astaxanthin/pigment enhancers- how important are they in a food? What else is desirable in a food? What other products would be good to consider?

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[salmonslayer]

All I know is Feed like hell and skim like hell. and change it up. I'am going to tag along. Good topic

 

[burning2nd]

i was recommended not to feed just one, or 2 different foods... but like all of them...

pritty much switch it up as much as you can...

i feed 5 different foods to my 3 fish...

u could allways make you own home made "mush"

adding like all sorts of frozens together

 

[CarlaW]

OK lets talk reef foods-zooplankton substitutes etc. There are more and more options now for feeding your reef (a good thing). Some are better then others and so many things to consider. SO I would like to here from people about what they have had success with as far as foods for mixed reef environments, and from experts if any happen upon this thread about recommended foods with good nutritional profiles and what a good profile is anyway.

so bring it on what foods do you like and have had succuss with?

Cheers,
Tracy

I use a mix that was given to me by Kevinpo. Formula 1 cubes, seaweed selects, freeze dried plankton, fresh/frozen large shrimp, cut up real fine, and a little garlic to make it all smell a little better. I have been feeding this for over 3 years, never had any problems with it. Just lately I have been adding some formula 2 cubes, and some frozen cubes, (angel and butterfly diet) also. I have also been known to add some frozen mysis and krill also, the krill replaces the shrimp when I didn't get to the store .
Hope this helps Tracy.

Oh yeah, thanx for the ride to the meeting in Spokane a couple of weeks ago, I see you also made it home safely.

 

[DonW]

Ive given up on all the funky foods trying to feed the corals. Ive switched to just nore and spectrum pellets 10 times a day. What little there is in my tank has never looked better. My fish no longer feed like wild animals and my corals grow.

Don

 

[fly guy]

I use:

All fresh from the supermarket

Clams
mussels
oysters
salmon
nori
(sometimes other stuff...but thats usually it)

I chop it all up into little tiny pieces, then add mysis and oyster eggs, and lay it out on a piece of waxed paper then freeze it. The once frozen I cut it into appropriately sized squares for each tank and seal a meal them in two week packages so it doesnt get freezer burn.

I do roughly 3 months worth at a time.

 

[shallowreef]

I feed the same as don.

 

[little fishes]

Thanks for all the input guys- I hope this will become a very informational thread we can all learn from.

Salmonslayer, I agree that heavy feeding and also that heavy skimming and water changes are important to get food to your corals- even the photosynthetic ones- and then get the excess out.

Burning2nd, Charlie, and flyguy-agreed that variety is important, and I do actually make a mush of the formula one, freeze dried plankton, nori, and a wee bit o garlic for the fish in a food processor. With the rest I feed separately because thawing and refreezing allows much of what is nutritionally valuable in a fresh food to be degraded so I just thaw once and feed. Also I think fresh is good if you have access like flyguy- then you can mix and freeze-thaw just once. And I think these are all things to keep in mind about foods you feed for all your inhabitants, But actually what I am most interested in here is feeding the corals/inverts and from what I understand home style blenders just don’t get the food small enough for many of these critters. That’s why I am so interested in alternative foods that are - say less then 500 microns!

There are a lot of foods marketed for corals some look better then others-but what really works? Some have additives like yeast, yeast extract, and egg. These just don’t seem like they would be desirable to corals? Some have ingredients that look good but are they in a form (physically and chemically) useable to the corals? These are the things I am wondering. Anyone know some experts on any of this they could point over here?

DonW- What funky foods have you feed your corals that you did not like, and why didn’t you like them? Also the spectrum pellets were not something I had previously considered so I looked them up. What size do you feed? The small fish formula is .35mm or 350 microns so that is actually in the size range I am thinking would be good(of course I would like as much variety as possible). Have you witnessed any of your corals consume it? What species? It is intriguing to me even though it is marketed for fish. Here is what I found for the analysis: MAIN INGREDIENTS: Krill Meal, Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Amino Acids, Algae Meal, Soybean Meal, Fish Oil, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal- Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Folic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine, Biotin. GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Protein 34% Min., Fat 5% Min., Fiber 5% Max., Ash 9% Max., Moisture 10% Max. I like that it has Beta carotene, spirulina, fish oil, and a high protein content. I do not know how beneficial the other additives are (or actually the spirulina being a fresh water algae)? and I am not sure that I like the wheat and soy meal in there!

(Oh, and Charlie- Your welcome about the ride even though it really did not get you there any quicker then if you hitched with Kevin after all- but anytime I can help!)

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[fly guy]

Little fishes....what I didnt add to that, is that 1/4(maybe less) of my concoction, I blend to liquid before freezing, just for the corals.....that and the oyster eggs of course.

 

[CarlaW]

(Oh, and Charlie- Your welcome about the ride even though it really did not get you there any quicker then if you hitched with Kevin after all- but anytime I can help!)

You had a great copilot.

 

[DonW]

DonW- What funky foods have you feed your corals that you did not like, and why didn’t you like them? Also the spectrum pellets were not something I had previously considered so I looked them up. What size do you feed? The small fish formula is .35mm or 350 microns so that is actually in the size range I am thinking would be good(of course I would like as much variety as possible). Have you witnessed any of your corals consume it?

I feed the small and large since I have small and large fish. Have I seen corals eat it. I do sps so of course not, sps feed on detritus so I guess you could say indirectly they are eating it.
Ive tried about every concoction made and as of late very high protien foods.
I dont think there is a over the counter food that your going to get sps to consume. With this in mind I concentrate on the fish and the corals get what comes out the back-end.

Don

 

[SueT]

I have been feeding the BluCoral or pappone for over 3 months now. 18 feedings to be exact. Corals are growing like wildfire. I feed my fish seperately with PE brand mysis, enriched brine both hufa and spirulina and nori for powder blue and figi foxface. They also get some of the not quite blended mixture of the pappone.

 

[little fishes]

Fly guy- sounds like a Blue Coral Method, Pappone, or Eric Borneman recipe. There was a debate on weather any of it even blended to liquid was small enough for some corals (mainly sps) to consume directly-

The theory is as DonW suggests above that fish eat it and produce waste that the corals eat and the smaller particles break down and feed zooplankton and bacteria in the aquarium which also in turn feed the corals. I think this is also part of the Zeovit system with the release of the mulm. So if that is the case then why not just add the bacteria directly? I mean- live cultures of Nitrosomonas, nitrobacter, nitrosospira and like nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria are also commercially available as tank starters. Could these sort of cultures be used similarly to DTs to add yet another live food source for coral? It seems you could bypass the food slury breaking down stage that lead to excessive nutrients and instead add the end product of what you are really after in a live form (which presumably then would be available as a food source for longer before it dies/decomposes). These bacteria are only about 3 microns so still on par with some of the phyto but a different food source none the less. So how about it- has anyone just straight up supplemented the nitrifying bacteria? Anyone know of studies that have tried this? Any experts out there that may want to chime in with an opinion? Still hoping this thread will catch some more attention.

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[little fishes]

Hi SueT, Thanks for chiming in!
With the Papone- do you know what particle sizes you are getting? And is it your impression that the corals eat it directly or that it feeds zooplankton and bacteria that the corals then eat?

Cheers

 

[SueT]

Hi Tracy, well, thats a good question. I didn't make this batch it was made for me, but I see when added to the tank after thawing, small particles that are maybe the size of a pin head. Maybe... Most if it goes into the water column. I have understood that the sugar feeds the bacteria and makes for very, very clear tank water. Don would be much better to explain this as I know it works cause I see it but am not the best to explain it. My sps are growing like crazy so somethings working.

 

[DonW]

Feed bacteria. Dont fool with mother nature especially at that level. With the high protien methods such as oysters and the blue coral method your doing something similar. The bacteria go nuts for the stuff and the reproduce like crazy. You see big increases in orp and water clarity. Probably the biggest down fall is when it all come crashing down. Even stopping an aggresive dosing of liquified oysters will cause a huge die off almost like a addiction.
Its much easier to feed a good steady diet and let the bacteria equalize on its own.

Don

 

[Damsel13]

No expert only in the newbie phase but it seems to me that nature takes care of what we humans don't and so... the natural food will always nurture better than supplements.

 

[little fishes]

So DonW- you would not recomend the blue coral method or bacteria straight up? Is it your impression that blended freash food mixes are not being used directly to any great degree? Would not feeding the spectrum 10x day also be a way of cranking up the volume on bacterial production in the tank?

Anyway-not like I am actually going to run out and dose bacteria- just trying to get some good discussion about all these feeding methods (and what they actually feed) going.

Also- still thinking that food between 50-500 microns would be best- anyone else have a product that they do like?

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[bbehring]

Here's a link to a super thread on Indlandreefs with recipies and how toos.

http://www.inlandreefs.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=44&topic=810.0