Boomer
Well-known member
Entomologists use it on insects for the same 
Nitrofurazone question
- Thread starter azgard1
- Start date
Help Support Reef Aquarium & Tank Building Forum:
Thanks Boomer. The problem with the test kits (mostly as far as I can tell) is the color. You're right about the secondary problem of chemical interactions. I use the dip sticks myself when performing a chemical treatment. A 'before' and 'after' can tell me if there is a chemical reaction.
Boomer
Well-known member
I should add that Mardel no has a new toy out called th Live NH3. They also have one for pH and temp. All of these can be put right in the tank. Thees are larger units and work similar to the SeaChem Labs Alert Card. I don't know how good them are. Dips stick may be OK but I would check them against a good test kit first. I just tested a Pentair Aquatics Lifeguard pH Test Strip for FW & SW. It says my tap is pH 8 when it is 9.1.
azgard1
Well-known member
In view of short window of time and energy reserve of this animal I elected to try a product called Bio-Bandage. This product contains Neomycin sulfate, Methylene blue, Cyanocabalamin, vitamin B12, binder and adhesion agents in an isotonic, aqueous solution. What this all chemically means I'm not entirely sure (Boomer)?
The fish is elevated out of water and the gel-based medication applied direct to the wound and lesions on body and fins. I noticed the methylene blue dye component apparently "staining the fungus blue where bacteria do not" as Boomer mentioned. This is bad in that I guess for sure it confirms fungus but good in that this treatment appears to be working very effectively and the infection spread seems to have stopped. The healing process in just 24hr has been quit remarkable (pictures to follow).
Recommendation for this treatment is at least once every day. I have been doing about once every 8hs initially. When I have the animal out of water I have noticed some lack of slime coat. This fish seams to be quit cooperative and I could have a short opportunity to apply directly by hand some type of synthetic coat. What would thoughts be on this idea or is it best left alone?
One last note the eyesight seems to be recovering. Wow
Thanks so much in advance.
The fish is elevated out of water and the gel-based medication applied direct to the wound and lesions on body and fins. I noticed the methylene blue dye component apparently "staining the fungus blue where bacteria do not" as Boomer mentioned. This is bad in that I guess for sure it confirms fungus but good in that this treatment appears to be working very effectively and the infection spread seems to have stopped. The healing process in just 24hr has been quit remarkable (pictures to follow).
Recommendation for this treatment is at least once every day. I have been doing about once every 8hs initially. When I have the animal out of water I have noticed some lack of slime coat. This fish seams to be quit cooperative and I could have a short opportunity to apply directly by hand some type of synthetic coat. What would thoughts be on this idea or is it best left alone?
One last note the eyesight seems to be recovering. Wow
Thanks so much in advance.
Last edited:
azgard1
Well-known member
Lee, one more thing, I have not attempted to add Nifurpirinol yet. The fish seems to be enjoying the new med free water. Would you recommend I proceed or hold off.?
Thank you for you help
Bob
Thank you for you help
Bob
I assume you have treated with Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish. Is this right?
If you have, then I would suggest holding off on the Nifurpirinol. I'd say the gel is doing the trick. Please keep us informed.
The eyesight is good news!
If you have, then I would suggest holding off on the Nifurpirinol. I'd say the gel is doing the trick. Please keep us informed.
The eyesight is good news!
Methylene blue rarely helps cure saltwater fishes of true fungal infections. Vets have given up on it for this. It does kill fungi in petri dishes, though. Perhaps in the gel form, it can play a larger/more significant role along with the Neomycin. Still, Neomycin is the primary active ingredient.
If the fungal infection is responsive to this treatment, then it was/is a true fungus. This makes the fish the lucky 5 out of 10.
I really dislike companies that behave suspiciously in their marketing. "Cyanocabalamin" is another name for vitamin B12, so when I see they list it separately, I begin to suspect their 'marketing' ethics.
Don't hesitate to feed the fish 7 times a day, small quantities. Angels can be picky, slow eaters.
I'm curious and I'm sure other readers/subscribers to this thread may be, as to just how this fish got into this condition. Care to elaborate? Did it come in like this or ?
azgard1
Well-known member
Thanks Lee,
Yes Maracyn Two and Nitrofurazone, although it appeared to me Maracyn was the better help. As time went forward recovery seemed to be coming to a halt. This is when the fins started to rise and the for-mention mucus at fin tips started to appear. I was suspicious of the mix of so many previous meds i.e copper etc and is why I wanted to get this guy into an new fresh baseline. At least now my ammonia test will work and I can step forward with a better understanding of various chemical effects.
I agree with your thoughts regarding 'marketing' ethics and all kinds of smoke and mirror tricks. I really was quite concerned, but in view of the 50% mortality I thought I'd give it a shot. So far it looks like I'm lucky, will see.
Yes I do care to elaborate and I plan to provide a complete history of how this issue unfolded as well as a full set of pictures illuminating each stage of progress. This is my plan regardless if the fish succeeds or fails.
Thank you for participating in this journey with me.
Yes Maracyn Two and Nitrofurazone, although it appeared to me Maracyn was the better help. As time went forward recovery seemed to be coming to a halt. This is when the fins started to rise and the for-mention mucus at fin tips started to appear. I was suspicious of the mix of so many previous meds i.e copper etc and is why I wanted to get this guy into an new fresh baseline. At least now my ammonia test will work and I can step forward with a better understanding of various chemical effects.
I agree with your thoughts regarding 'marketing' ethics and all kinds of smoke and mirror tricks. I really was quite concerned, but in view of the 50% mortality I thought I'd give it a shot. So far it looks like I'm lucky, will see.
Yes I do care to elaborate and I plan to provide a complete history of how this issue unfolded as well as a full set of pictures illuminating each stage of progress. This is my plan regardless if the fish succeeds or fails.
Thank you for participating in this journey with me.
Last edited:
I personally believe that the Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish made the biggest diff. The Nitrofurazone is topical whereas the Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish goes internal, too.
Keep 'pushing' the food! When (and as soon as) possible include immune boosters.
I think things are looking good.
Keep 'pushing' the food! When (and as soon as) possible include immune boosters.
I think things are looking good.
azgard1
Well-known member
My mistake in the quote on the ingredients stated on the box of Bio-Bandage it is as follows:
Product contains Neomycin sulfate, Methylene blue, Cyanocabalamin (vitamin B12), binder and adhesion agents in an isotonic, aqueous solution.
Also says on box Active Ingredients: Combination of Neomycin & Proprietary Vitamin-Polymer Formula. Under license from Aquascience Research Group, Inc. Patent Pending.
Anyway just for the record.
Bob
Product contains Neomycin sulfate, Methylene blue, Cyanocabalamin (vitamin B12), binder and adhesion agents in an isotonic, aqueous solution.
Also says on box Active Ingredients: Combination of Neomycin & Proprietary Vitamin-Polymer Formula. Under license from Aquascience Research Group, Inc. Patent Pending.
Anyway just for the record.
Bob
azgard1
Well-known member
Lee, in my post #45 I mentioned the possibility of applying directly by hand some type of synthetic coat. What do you think?
Bob
Bob
That's better, Bob. Thought they were 'trying to get away with something.' The ingredients list now, is much more reasonable.
I wouldn't apply coating by hand. Just help the fish restore its own coating. Did I mention these two?
Pro Tech Coat Marine and StressGuard may be used as a temporary mucus layer, or to help the fish repair its mucous layer.
I would just pick/use one of the above.
What kind of lighting is on the aquarium? It should be dim or minimal lighting. I'm not sure how much Methylene Blue is in the gel, but it is phototoxic.
I wouldn't apply coating by hand. Just help the fish restore its own coating. Did I mention these two?
Pro Tech Coat Marine and StressGuard may be used as a temporary mucus layer, or to help the fish repair its mucous layer.
I would just pick/use one of the above.
What kind of lighting is on the aquarium? It should be dim or minimal lighting. I'm not sure how much Methylene Blue is in the gel, but it is phototoxic.
azgard1
Well-known member
HI all,
My fish is making a very nice recovery, I have been documenting with pic various steps in recovery.
With regard to fungal infections and Bio-Bandage, I am not convinced that it has much effect to the fungal component directly. Rather if you can get a wound sealed and get the fish to establish a mucus barrier, then you are on a road to recovery. Of major importance during this time is to get that fish to eat and build up energy. This I have been able to do with frequent small feedings by hand direct to mouth about every 2-3hrs. Food additions include Selcon and Beta1,3 Glucan.
I tried an experiment of my own. Because Bio-Bandage is a topical treatment. It occurred to me to develop a Tetracycline topical solution. The hope would be to address the fungal directly. What I've done is elevate the fish, wipe the fungal from the wound then clean it with my Tetracycline solution then cover over with the Bio-Bandage.
This process appears to work but requires days of meticulous follow up until all evidence of fungal is gone.
Eye sight appears to be a very slow issue, but is progressing.
Regards Bob
My fish is making a very nice recovery, I have been documenting with pic various steps in recovery.
With regard to fungal infections and Bio-Bandage, I am not convinced that it has much effect to the fungal component directly. Rather if you can get a wound sealed and get the fish to establish a mucus barrier, then you are on a road to recovery. Of major importance during this time is to get that fish to eat and build up energy. This I have been able to do with frequent small feedings by hand direct to mouth about every 2-3hrs. Food additions include Selcon and Beta1,3 Glucan.
I tried an experiment of my own. Because Bio-Bandage is a topical treatment. It occurred to me to develop a Tetracycline topical solution. The hope would be to address the fungal directly. What I've done is elevate the fish, wipe the fungal from the wound then clean it with my Tetracycline solution then cover over with the Bio-Bandage.
This process appears to work but requires days of meticulous follow up until all evidence of fungal is gone.
Eye sight appears to be a very slow issue, but is progressing.
Regards Bob
Last edited:
This is very encouraging. I tend to agree with the assessment of Bio-Bandage and fungal infections. I thought it just might 'smother' the fungus and the fish might take care of healing/recovering. But I'm also unsure if this would be the case if the fungal infection was advanced. Catching it as early as you did, has significant advantages to success.
azgard1
Well-known member
Lee,
Now that I've eliminated "visible" fungus, will the fish still be a carrier and is the quarantine system also infected? What would be the procedure to move this guy into a community tank?
Bob
Now that I've eliminated "visible" fungus, will the fish still be a carrier and is the quarantine system also infected? What would be the procedure to move this guy into a community tank?
Bob
Last edited:
Bob,
Fungus is a tough agent to get a foothold in a fish. The fish already in the display should be disease free and healthy (if properly taken care of and properly nourished). The Angel should be kept in quarantine for 4 weeks after you think the fish has fully recovered from all conditions. If during those 4 weeks any symptom of any of the previous conditions, including fungal infection, or any new symptom shows up, then the clock stops and starts over again. That is, you need 4 full, uninterrupted weeks of the fish being symptom free.
At the end of that time, the fish is ready to go into the display.
As for the quarantine tank, I would disinfect it. You don't know what condition the next fish might be have, and there is no use in making the next fish fight off a fungal infection on top of whatever may be ailing it.
If the tank won't be used for hospital or QT but you want to turn it into another reef or FOWLR or FO marine system, then rinse it out with some bleach and rinse well with tap water several times, then a final couple of rinses with RO/DI or distilled water. Let it go bone dry and then begin to use the tank for another system. The equipment used on the tank should be discarded if the bleaching will harm the equipment.
Fungus is a tough agent to get a foothold in a fish. The fish already in the display should be disease free and healthy (if properly taken care of and properly nourished). The Angel should be kept in quarantine for 4 weeks after you think the fish has fully recovered from all conditions. If during those 4 weeks any symptom of any of the previous conditions, including fungal infection, or any new symptom shows up, then the clock stops and starts over again. That is, you need 4 full, uninterrupted weeks of the fish being symptom free.
At the end of that time, the fish is ready to go into the display.
As for the quarantine tank, I would disinfect it. You don't know what condition the next fish might be have, and there is no use in making the next fish fight off a fungal infection on top of whatever may be ailing it.
If the tank won't be used for hospital or QT but you want to turn it into another reef or FOWLR or FO marine system, then rinse it out with some bleach and rinse well with tap water several times, then a final couple of rinses with RO/DI or distilled water. Let it go bone dry and then begin to use the tank for another system. The equipment used on the tank should be discarded if the bleaching will harm the equipment.
azgard1
Well-known member
Thanks Lee,
I'm trying to find various foods I can get this fish to eat. I know sponge, but otherwise what can I do. I'm feeding clam i.e. cherry stone and it will-not take Norrie yet. He is certainly starting to become aggressive i.e dorsal fin will come up when I try to feed something he will not like. What other foods can I try on this guy? He is blind and at the choice of what I provide, this reminds me of my first children, presenting food and watching them close their mouth. Whats funny is me opening and closing my mouth with the fish. This is unbelievable, but I think you know what I mean.
Please advise any food I can try.?
I'm trying to find various foods I can get this fish to eat. I know sponge, but otherwise what can I do. I'm feeding clam i.e. cherry stone and it will-not take Norrie yet. He is certainly starting to become aggressive i.e dorsal fin will come up when I try to feed something he will not like. What other foods can I try on this guy? He is blind and at the choice of what I provide, this reminds me of my first children, presenting food and watching them close their mouth. Whats funny is me opening and closing my mouth with the fish. This is unbelievable, but I think you know what I mean.
Please advise any food I can try.?
Last edited:
The Angels of this sort are usually feeding on corals, polyps, crustaceans and the like.
San Francisco Bay/Sally's brand offers a krill that contains krill of about 1/2 inch in length. It's the whole organism. I'd try krill of about that size. Some plankton also comes with organisms of about 1/4 to 3/8 inch long. See if you can find any of those packaged marine fish foods. Just be sure the food is from the sea -- actually seafood -- not freshwater.
Don't worry about the macro algae yet. Meaty foods will be easier to digest for now. Try almost any meaty seafood food you can think of. You can buy fresh or frozen raw squid from a market and try that chopped as well as chopped shrimp tails; or a mixed prepared carnivore/predator packaged food.
I tell you one thing that most of my Angels have enjoyed and that is scallop meat. Again at the market, get the large (not small) scallops. The small ones are called Bay Scallops and they are not the ones you really would like to have, but they will do if you can't find the jumbo ones.
Try some prepared packaged food for Angelfish. Read the ingredients. Get one that contains sponge and try that. With the sponge component, it might peak the fish's interest in the other flavors.
First freeze anything you get that is thawed. If it was frozen to begin with, then you can begin to use it when it thaws.
Shred the scallop meat up and present it about the same as you present the clam meat. Scallop will provide not only protein, but also carbohydrates.
Good luck!
San Francisco Bay/Sally's brand offers a krill that contains krill of about 1/2 inch in length. It's the whole organism. I'd try krill of about that size. Some plankton also comes with organisms of about 1/4 to 3/8 inch long. See if you can find any of those packaged marine fish foods. Just be sure the food is from the sea -- actually seafood -- not freshwater.
Don't worry about the macro algae yet. Meaty foods will be easier to digest for now. Try almost any meaty seafood food you can think of. You can buy fresh or frozen raw squid from a market and try that chopped as well as chopped shrimp tails; or a mixed prepared carnivore/predator packaged food.
I tell you one thing that most of my Angels have enjoyed and that is scallop meat. Again at the market, get the large (not small) scallops. The small ones are called Bay Scallops and they are not the ones you really would like to have, but they will do if you can't find the jumbo ones.
Try some prepared packaged food for Angelfish. Read the ingredients. Get one that contains sponge and try that. With the sponge component, it might peak the fish's interest in the other flavors.
First freeze anything you get that is thawed. If it was frozen to begin with, then you can begin to use it when it thaws.
Shred the scallop meat up and present it about the same as you present the clam meat. Scallop will provide not only protein, but also carbohydrates.
Good luck!
azgard1
Well-known member
Thank you Lee. I will follow your recommendations and let you know how it works out.
Bob
Bob
