o2manyfish - Skimmer Comparison

[Ger]

Dave, my guess is that the power is rated at the max water throughput without air. With the addiditional venturi, the power draw is increased. But that's just a guess. You may be able to check it by pinching off the air and take a reading, then. Or, I don't know enough about electricity, but could it be that the difference comes from testing/rating the pumps at 110V/50Hz vs. running them at 110V/60Hz?

 

[moonpod]

If you pinch off the air to the Deltec Eheims they start rattling something awful. I dunno, but the impellor doesn't seem to like that. Might affect power draw.

 

[Heinz]

Dave, my guess is that the power is rated at the max water throughput without air. With the addiditional venturi, the power draw is increased. But that's just a guess. You may be able to check it by pinching off the air and take a reading, then. Or, I don't know enough about electricity, but could it be that the difference comes from testing/rating the pumps at 110V/50Hz vs. running them at 110V/60Hz?

i think you mean V220/50hz vs V110/60hz,

thats what i was thinking too but like you i dont know enough about electric to confirm this

 

[OUinLA]

I was wondering the same thing as Gary and Heinz. Hopefully someone w/ some insight into this can inform us all. I've always been under the assumption that 220v is more effecient than 110v. Is that a likely cause for both these different pumps drawing more wattage?

BTW, Dave sent me the names of all the skimmers. Tonight I will finish the bracket and post it here.

 

[Scooterman]

In the US, it is closer to 120 VAC not 110VAC, it can swing from 117VAC to
123VAC, overseas, you can get yourself into lots of options, European
countries can be 210-240vac/50hz. It all depends where your at in this
world, in Asian countries, 180/220vac 50hz, 380/440vac 50hz.

I've always been under the assumption that 220v is more
efficient than 110v. Is that a likely cause for both these different pumps
drawing more wattage?

Ohms law takes place here, if you do some math, your playing with numbers. Example..
400watts @ 220VAC= 1.818Amps
400watts @ 120VAC= 3.333Amps
Use Ohms Law to see the difference;

220VAC @ 5 Ohms = 9680 watts
120 VAC @ 5 Ohms - 2880 watts

See a relation? There can be 220VAC single phase, 220VAC two or three phase, depending on the supply transformer.

What does this all mean you say!
All depends on your needs, when you pay your electric bill, you pay for K watts or 1000 watts, so power consumption as compared to amperage is a relational thing. You will use more power as in watts with a 220Vac motor but at a lower or almost half the amperage, depending on the voltage, comparisons as I made. Different voltages, motor windings by design fit a unique need.

 

[thetedinator]

In the US, it is closer to 120 VAC not 110VAC, it can swing from 117VAC to
123VAC, overseas, you can get yourself into lots of options, European
countries can be 210-240vac/50hz. It all depends where your at in this
world, in Asian countries, 180/220vac 50hz, 380/440vac 50hz.



Ohms law takes place here, if you do some math, your playing with numbers. Example..
400watts @ 220VAC= 1.818Amps
400watts @ 120VAC= 3.333Amps
Use Ohms Law to see the difference;

220VAC @ 5 Ohms = 9680 watts
120 VAC @ 5 Ohms - 2880 watts

See a relation? There can be 220VAC single phase, 220VAC two or three phase, depending on the supply transformer.

What does this all mean you say!
All depends on your needs, when you pay your electric bill, you pay for K watts or 1000 watts, so power consumption as compared to amperage is a relational thing. You will use more power as in watts with a 220Vac motor but at a lower or almost half the amperage, depending on the voltage, comparisons as I made. Different voltages, motor windings by design fit a unique need.

Thanks for reminding me why I became a SW Engineer instead of an Electrical Engineer. LOL.

 

[OUinLA]

Ok, here is a "draft" of the bracket. I'm open to suggestions and there might be a little tweaking done here and there. Especially for presentation . But here is the first look.

 

[thetedinator]

I went over and took a look at the test facility and some of the skimmers. The "watts up" is slick. This should be interesting.

 

[big t]

Hey Scoot, they use anywhere from 210 to 240v in 50hz over in everywhere I have been in europe (most every country) Just a note

 

[Scooterman]

Hey Scoot, they use anywhere from 210 to 240v in 50hz over in everywhere I have been in europe (most every country) Just a note

Your right, I made the proper edit, should of looked it up instead of trying to remember.

 

[FinsReef]

Do we have all the Model #'s of the skimmers being tested yet?

 

[WaterDogs]

I use a Lifereef Model HVS2-24 which is an in sump skimmer that comes with a bracket for HOB; I'm happy with it and I'm sure it would give some of those models listed above a good run for there money.

Mostly tagging along.

Dwaine

 

[dgasmd]

Do we have all the Model #'s of the skimmers being tested yet?

Yup, I am sure you guys have named all the models by now one here and another there in different posts, but putting them together would help.

OUinLA:
Why not move the H&S to the "C" bracket? It would make it more even by putting a needle wheel skimmer in every category. Could answer by itself at least one question: Is a needle wheel skimmer better than the larger pump requiring skimmers? That would obviously be the case if the winner in each category was the needle wheel skimmer obviously. Just a suggestion. :razz:

 

[o2manyfish]

Hey Guys,

Here are the Model Numbers -- In an effort of fairness I would love it if someone not involved would gather all the stats for the different model skimmers.... Invincible this could be a great Internet Search project for you.

I have not been able to confirm an H&S Skimmer yet. Hopefully that will happen today. And we have 1 slot open. I have talked with StoneyReef and Barr Aquatics. Does anyone else have a contact with a skimmer company to get us 1 more skimmer to make it an even dozen (please) --


As for the Models

EuroReef - CS 8-2
AquaMedic - Turboflotor 1000
Bubble King 250 (or is it 200?)

Geo (Model with 2 Sedra 5000 pumps)
Aqua C 400 with Mag 24
ETSS - Model that is only 23" tall

ViaAqua 200 (ViaAqua has a 300 but this is the model they wanted to use - They were confident in the smaller size)
MRC 3/4 - Will have both skimmers here to test out
H&S - Waiting to Confirm skimmer and model

Grotech (Unknown model -GER chime in)
Deltec 902/850 - Waiting to determine
Unknown -- someone offer something up ---


Dave B

 

[dgasmd]

Dave:

You could contact Frank Wilson at Reef Concepts. He is the maker of the aerofoamer skimmer. Below is an email address.

[email protected]

 

[dnjan]

Other test factors

I have finally caught up on the posts in this thread, and have enjoyed it a lot. One factor, however, seems to be a subconscious assumption in many of the posts - that the organics being skimmed are similar molecules.

In reality, the molecules we want to skim vary a lot in their size and polarity. Skimming of different-sized/polarity molecules would depend on bubble size and bubble-water contact time. Translation - some skimmers would remove things that others miss, and vice-versa.

Ideally (already mentioned, but worth repeating here), there would be chemical analysis of what is being skimmed (at least approximate molecular length). Too bad the National Science Foundation is so skimpy with their funding for really important projects.

How about (as part of the testing) collecting the outflow (skimmed) water from each of the skimmers, and then using that water as input for the partner skimmer. I would really be interested in knowing that skimmer A removed something from water that had already been "cleaned" by skimmer B, but skimmer B couldn't get anything more from skimmer A's water. Or that each could get something from the other's "cleaned" water.

Seeing which skimmer keeps on skimming the longest only partly addresses this issue, because it assumes that both skimmers are either removing the same things, or that all length/polarity of contaminants are equally represented in the input water. But pH, ORP, etc. will effect the makeup of the organics in the tank water.

Looking forward to the results, and really hoping that you will consider collecting and re-skimming the cleaned water in the partner skimmers.

 

[o2manyfish]

DgasMD,


Called Frank this morning, he was a little wary apparently a company tried a comparison with only 4 skimmers and after a year, never published the results and disappeared with his skimmer.

He is on vacation at the moment, and is due back next week. I sent him some information. If you know him personally to get him involved and reassure him about what is going on that would be great.

I picked up the MRC 3 from Chuck Moon today -- Big thanks for Chuck -- Everyone should ask him about the new Halide Ballast he is getting for Hannukah - That thing is awesome


DNJan,

I understand what you are saying about testing what the skimmers collect. And anyone that wants to test skimmate is welcome to it. I personally hate test kits - they are not my forte'.

However, I think in the environment of this comparison it would be impossible to reskimming test the skimmers - The skimmers are running on a 1500g system, they are not in a small test tank.

Dave B

 

[myreef]

Dave...we will ship the MR-4 and pump next week. Please email me your address at [email protected]. Thanks!

 

[FinsReef]

Scooterman,
I have another electrical question, If a pump runs at 220v/50 hz will it full more or less watts than a 120v/60 hz. Would a 220v pump produce more heat due to wattage than a 120v pump? Assuming they are the same gph?

 

[dgasmd]

Dave:

I don't know Frank anymore than anyone else that has bought something from him before. I did not even buy my skimer from him directly as it came as part of a set up I bought. He was more than accomodating to me and was very open to suggestions when I had some. He also went out of his way to allow me to retrofit some of the newer things into my older style skimmer. I will send him an email, but I don't think my words will be any more reassuring to him than yours.