One Bad apple...Dolphin vs Sequence Saga returns..

[Ed Hahn]

Les,
Sequence was on here. They posted a thread stating what happened. The factory representatives name on here is ReefFlo. Please look up his explaination of what happened. I am excited to get my pump back. Les let see how this baby performs when we get it back.
Its surprising to learn who is watching you on Reef Frontiers. This place keeps getting better and Better!

 

[DonW]

Ed,
Could you please explain what Sequence told you the problem was? Don,
I must say that changing pipe fittings out for spa flex will make a difference on total head loss, but are these pumps really that sensitive? When looking at my flow loss calculator, with 2" PVC at 3800 GPH, you only see a head loss of .5' per 90 ell. If you have many ells, then there will be a problem though. I think that Ed's pump had a bad bearing, at least that what it sounded like to me.
I guess what I'm seeing here only proves my point: I use the industry piping standard for all my sizing requirements on plumbing, I have no heat issues other than needing 1200 watts for winter operation.

I was'nt saying Ed's problems are plumbing related. Its the comparison between the same pump on two different systems. I use my Iwaki for the example just because I know they run extremely hot. Although Iwaki says they should be this way. Simply by making a few small changes you can decrease your pump temps dramaticly.
If I were to guess what was wrong with Ed's I would think more like a stator and armature machining issue.

Don

 

[les]

Don,
Are you seeing a difference in heat transfer between direct drive and mag drive pumps? With my Dolphin Ampmaster 4000, I have never seen any temp difference in using nozzles instead of open ended pipe. The problem with Eds pump was a factory mistake in installing the wrong motor, not in the plumbing.
I do know that deadheading a pump will cause heating, though how much is hard to guess. In the case of a pump I have a work, the water in the volute will boil in about 3-5 min if left deadheaded. I imagine this would also be true in our smaller pumps for aquaria.
It would be interesting to hear some data on whether or not a mag drive pump is more susceptible to heating due to changes in head pressure.

 

[DonW]

Don,
Are you seeing a difference in heat transfer between direct drive and mag drive pumps? With my Dolphin Ampmaster 4000, I have never seen any temp difference in using nozzles instead of open ended pipe. The problem with Eds pump was a factory mistake in installing the wrong motor, not in the plumbing.
I do know that deadheading a pump will cause heating, though how much is hard to guess. In the case of a pump I have a work, the water in the volute will boil in about 3-5 min if left deadheaded. I imagine this would also be true in our smaller pumps for aquaria.
It would be interesting to hear some data on whether or not a mag drive pump is more susceptible to heating due to changes in head pressure.

MY guess is that by nature the Mags are going to build more heat. I also have two Dolphin AM pumps, I cant get them to heat up if I try. They are always just plain cool. As far as Ed's pump goes if they installed a motor made to run on ponds and it made more heat and noise. I'd have to say that the quality of that pond motor was quite abit lower. Its ability to handle the load is probably compromised by its quality. I'm sure the Sequence is a fine pump and mistakes will be made, they are only human. I just wanted to point out that there are other factors that contribute to pumps transfering heat. I wouldnt want everyone with a heat problem to assume they just have bad pump.

Don

 

[les]

Point well taken, Don. I have on the shelf a pump that I first purchased for my big tank about a 1 1/2 years ago. (Dolphin Aqua Sea 5200)
In order to keep the tank from looking like a jacuzzi I had to throttle the supply down. This in turned caused the water to climb, up to 92 one afternoon. What I learned from that was to pay close attention to plumbing and pump choices. The problem was not the pump, just in the choice I made. I calculated the total head loss as a sum total, it needs to be calculated like you would figure the resistance in a electrical circuit.
In a nutshell, I strongly agree with you, not all heat issues are pump motor related. Folks should stand back and look at the overall picture much like Ed did.

 

[Ed Hahn]

pssst....Ed, I posted a link a couple of posts back. It gives info on the "hot" pump.

Psst....I got my Sequence pump back. I installed it. My tank looked like a Dust storm was in it for about 5 minutes. When the dust settled I took temperatures of pumps. The Sequence pump has been running continuously at a temp of 80 degrees. The dolphin pump is running close to the same temp plus one degree. I have to admit I still love Sequence pumps. This one is quiet and definitely puts out more flow. I hope the rest of you have the same luck.
Ed

 

[dgasmd]

Ed:

Do you ahve a picture of the before and after of the pump or does it look pretty much the same externally?

 

[big t]

Ed, I am very impressed that sequence stood behind their product like that and changed out your pump motor for you. I have no personal experience with sequence pumps at this point, but it sounds like I may just try them out.

I have heard of a LOT of problems with both Ampmaster and Sequence. The ampmaster problems were pretty much directly realated to the shaft seal, with the old style they leaked, almost every single one. They have since come out with a new design, that aparently doesn't leak. I have yet to try one of these new shaft seals yet, I am hoping that they can be retrofitted. The problem with Sequence is directly related to heat in the water. I was a bit scared to try sequence because of how many heat issues I have heard of. I am really glad that they are taking care of you guys.

 

[Ed Hahn]

The Sequence pump looks different. The pump now has cooling fins on the outside and is Gray color instead of Black.

I just wanted to add. My Sequence pump is still running cooler than Dolphin. I compared them this morning again. I think the new design with the cooling fins is remarkable. Thanks Brian for your time and excellent PR. I keep looking for a leak in my plumbing. I thought the Sequence pump was going to blow a seal with all the flow it was putting out. :lol:

 

[dgasmd]

UPDATE

Well, I got my pumps back from sequence yesterday. These people can pack a pump that is for sure.

This is what my old pump was, a valueflo rated at 1/3 HP (5800 gph).

This is what I got back

They certainly did as promised. They swaped the motors out and shipped them back the same day. They also upgraded the seals in them to the new carbide seals for free. What they did do also that is not what they told me is that they charged me for the shipping back to me $42, but since they gave me basically the new improved seals, I am not going to bitch too much about it. I installed the pumps tonite an they are significantly much quieter than the other ones. Also, they do not make my entire house vibrate. I could feel the walls vibrating in the upstairs bathroom and the pumps are in the garage. These ones, I can barely feel the wall vibrate with my hands on it right where the pipes come into the house. The motor runs fairly cool compared to the other motor too. It is warm, but not hot. We'll see how it affects the temp over time.

Overall, I am pretty happy with these new pumps. Sequence stood behind their product when they could have taken some kakamimi attitude and they delivered on what they said on the phone. I sincerely respect that and they have bought themselves a customer for life here.

Because the pumps had not been on for about 3 weeks, tons of debri had accumulated in the tank. When these pumps came on, the tank looked like a toilet flushing after mexican night :lol: :lol:

 

[Ed Hahn]

Cool, Good to hear Buddy!..Thanks for the input. Thank you Sequence..

 

[greenriver]

I Understand Sequence Pump Are A Very Nice Pump But It Does Transfer Heat
I Use Blue Line Pump X40 For My 75 Gal Reef It Has A Built In Fan And Heat Transfer Is Minimal Of Course It Seems Once You Get The Large Pumps The Mh Lighting And All The Other Goodies We Forget About The Chiller Which Is A Overly High Priced Item.

 

[dgasmd]

I Use Blue Line Pump X40 For My 75 Gal Reef It Has A Built In Fan And Heat Transfer Is Minimal Of Course It Seems Once You Get The Large Pumps The Mh Lighting And All The Other Goodies We Forget About The Chiller Which Is A Overly High Priced Item.

I am sorry, but I missed your point here. Also, and please don't take this offensively for I don't mean it that way at all, but could you please put . and , where they go? It makes it so much easier to know exactly what you mean rather than trying to interpret and misconstrue your comments.

 

[dgasmd]

Well, the pumps have been running for 2 days now and the temperature is exactly the same. I am still amazed by the lack of vibration and noise.
This is so good in fact that I am really considering to add 2 more pumps and get rid of the actuated ball valves instead. We'll see how those work first and go from there.

Alberto