phosban reactors

[spongebob lover]

Ok doods/ doodettes, i need some info.
After looking at Krish's set up, it came to my mind, what is a phosban reactor?
how does it work? and mainly... does it help the tank?
I tried looking for some info on them, but i can't find anything good more than their price (Nikki, any links ? )
I have a 37 gal tank, with a 10 gal tank under, nothing really fancy pantsi, Red Sea Prizm skimmer, now here comes the embarrasing thing i have never tested for phosphates , i do water changes every weekend (3 gals), so i guess that's why i have never worry about it.
Anyways, do you think i could use one of this?

 

[-=dieseldave=-]

I think it would be a good addition to any tank. They are very simple to hookup, operate, and maintain. I have the one by two little fish. If you get it you'll need a power head (I use a maxijet 400), and some 1/2'' vinyl tube. You then add the product of your choice and then adjust the flow to the reactor via the ball valve it comes with.
You may want more then one for carbon, and any other media that you may like.

 

[oldsaint]

Anyways, do you think i could use one of this?

IMO If it aint broke don't mess with it.
I have 3 reactors on my 260. One runs carbon the other 2 run phosban. They are very simple reactors. The water in supplied via a small pwr head and flows from the bottom of the reactor out the top. This allows better contact with the media. They've change thier design a little. The new ones IMO are more user friendly. They have scew off tops instead of 8-10 plastic nuts and bolt and the leveling scew is easier to adjust.
They're made by Two Little Fishies

 

[Krish]

Gabby, I have the Two little fishies phosban reactor and for the price you can't beat it. The media that the TLF reactors use is usually good for 3 months and the good thing about it also, is it won't leach back into your water once exhausted like carbon does. Like Oldsaint said, if it ain't broke don't fix it, but on that same note, it won't hurt anything either and can only benefit your tank. Some foods etc. will add phosphates into your water which will fuel algae. With the phosban reactor it will eliminate some of these phosphates which will benefit your tank on the whole. Do you need a link to where you can get it? If so, let me know...HTH

 

[spongebob lover]

thank you for your replys doods .
i think i'm gonna get one (ohh boy my list keeps getting bigger ) because for some reason i have a tiny bit of algae still growing and its really upseting me.
Krish, could you post the link as well dood? just so i can compare prices and see what i'm gonna be doing .
Another thing, can the phosban reactor be kept in the sump/ tank that i have?, the stand doesn't have to much space since the tank is right there, or how or where can i put it?

 

[liveforphysics]

Have you tried cheato in your sump? It requires phosphates and nitrates to grow (about 10 times the nitrate as phosphate). That means for it to grow, your water has to donate its available phosphates and nitrates to it.

I hugely over feed phosphate rich foods, never change water, and the test always shows a solid zero for phosphate.

I will give you a chunk of cheato if you wana try it.

 

[liveforphysics]

Instead of going the cyborg tank on life support route, you should do a little test. I will even help you set it up. We dump the skimmer, we throw cheato in the sump, and I help you setup some super cheap lighting above the cheato.

Then at the end of a month or so, see if your tank doesnt look better than it ever has before. Im so confident you and your tank will love it, I will even buy back whatever lighting you bought for the sump if you dont like it.

 

[spongebob lover]

you know dood, after seeing your thread i was really surpriced .

We dump the skimmer

i don't know dood, i think it'd cause me some brain damage and in my conditions is not that good .
Right now, i'm looking at the options to see what i can do to get rid of some of my algae that keeps making me nuts.
I don't have a sump that's why i haven't done it and i don't have lights for it which is another thing that's why i was also looking into the phosban reactor, because i read about people saying good things.
I think i'd love to try both things and see what works best, but i also gotta think money wise.
let's say i go with the chaeto, what lights do you recomend?

 

[liveforphysics]

Gabby, The lights I recomend come in a 4 pack at home depot for 20$. I need 2 more for a friend, so you would be looking at $10 + 2 little cords for $2.99 each.

I dont think the cheato gets to work well when a tank is being skimmed. Its nutrient source looses all balence of compounds.

Cheato is like a phosphate reactor, nitrate reactor, DOC's reactor, home for micro and macro plankton, oxygen source, pH controler, and many more great things all rolled up in to one.

I will bring you a hand full of my substrate, handful of cheato, and help you setup some lights and remove the skimmer.

Before this though, I wana see you test your water for phosphate, nitrate, etc, and try to guage the amount of detritus you see on your rocks.

Once we have got the cheato system going, I want you to test your water conditions again and look for detritus. You are welcome to borrow test kits if you need them. I think you will be very pleasently suprized.

If you want something to hurt your brain, just think about how your skimmer works. You are discarding anything that increases surface tension on a bubble by a certian amount. Seems pretty damn silly doesnt it? How many good things increase surface tension on a bubble, and how many bad things (phosphate compounds and many more) have little or no effect on bubble surface tension? How much of the micro level food supply are you tossing out in that skimmate?

 

[spongebob lover]

i think the lights are really cheap .
One thing is, would it be ok without a sump? because i don't want my pump getting all full of chaeto, or would i have to get a sump for this?.
I'm gonna try getting my phosphate test kit and see where i'm at (sorry i'm also gonna start paying for some driving lessons , so it might take me a little bit longer).
About my detritus hmm... i'm sure i have plenty , everytime i brush (yes krish ) my rocks and blow them with the turkey baster you see a lot of stuff flying around.

 

[spongebob lover]

By the way, sorry if i'm sounding to cheap about this sump situation but i seriouly gotta learn how to drive... which is another thing that is making me nuts and lessons are not that cheap

 

[Krish]

Instead of going the cyborg tank on life support route, you should do a little test. I will even help you set it up. We dump the skimmer, we throw cheato in the sump, and I help you setup some super cheap lighting above the cheato.

Not to sound controversial or anything, but that is a big "jump" or "risk" for anyone to take. A system that has relied on certain things like a skimmer from the beginning only to have it removed to "try" something new may cause a problem. I could see maybe adding chaeto in conjunction with a skimmer, to see how things go, but to rely soley on chaeto and "dump" the skimmer may not be the answer. Hey, I have a skimmer, phosban reactor and no chaeto, and I don't have any kind of nuisance algae growing in my main display at all. From start up till now (June-Feb) even during cycling. I post pictures all the time of my tank and literally post pretty much more than anyone else here and never showed a picture of or spoke of a nuicance algae in my tank. I have some algae growing on it's own in my fuge section of my sump (which runs on an alternate photoperiod of my tank) which I'm sure is using up some phosphates and nitrates, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that I'd shut off my skimmer and let the algae take over in my fuge for me to keep my system stable. Chaeto works for some people and for others it doesn't do much for them. I guess you can say the same for skimmerless systems as well as systems that rely on skimmers, but I can tell you this, start a poll and see who uses a skimmer and who doesn't, but just relies on chaeto and I'm sure more than 90% of the people don't rely simply on chaeto without a skimmer. I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.

I'm not trying to discredit your filtration method Luke (because your photos do speak for themselves), but I've seen some pretty darn stable and beautiful systems here on RF and other places in tanks with every type of coral you can name surviving and doing great with systems relying in some part on skimmers. To push this idea on someone may not be the best thing. especially someone learning. I guess it's a hard "concept" for me to grasp just to rely on chaeto. I'd be curious to see how a system would do that relies only on chaeto that has all types of corals in it (besides PaulB's tank) My views on the subject doesn't mean I think I'm correct. It's just my 2 cents and I would really hate to see a fellow reefer dump the skimmer and just add chaeto and have a problem in their tank. I think a little thought should be put into the "idea" first

 

[Krish]

Here are the links Gabby. The first one is the reactor and the second is the powerhead you'd need to run it

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...=PROD&Product_Code=TLF-PHOSREC&Category_Code=

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...PROD&Product_Code=MJ400&Category_Code=Maxijet

 

[spongebob lover]

Thank you dood for the reply .
and that's one of my main concerns... because i also wouldn't want everything to have a big change just for a little algae problem i have.
Right now, I'm half and half because i wanna see the options and both of you have really really good points and really good tanks so i can't say nothing more than listen to what everyone thinks and after that, doing what's best for the tank.

 

[spongebob lover]

[Here are the links Gabby. The first one is the reactor and the second is the powerhead you'd need to run it

thank you dood, i'll check them out right now.

 

[Krish]

Here's the media I forgot(LOL)

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...OD&Product_Code=TLF-PHOSBAN&Category_Code=TLF

 

[spongebob lover]

Thank you dood

 

[Krish]

Thank you dood for the reply .
and that's one of my main concerns... because i also wouldn't want everything to have a big change just for a little algae problem i have.
Right now, I'm half and half because i wanna see the options and both of you have really really good points and really good tanks so i can't say nothing more than listen to what everyone thinks and after that, doing what's best for the tank.

That's cool Gabby! Like I've said before, my way may not be your way and vice versa and also, what works for you may not work for me. That's the good thing about the hobby. Luke seems to be very bright and I have a lot to learn. I just wanted you to think things through before jumping the gun. Even on buying a phosban reactor. I can't see any bad resulting from one, but with all things, you have to think them through with this type of hobby or you can have bad results. That's really all I was trying to say...

 

[spongebob lover]

thanks dood .
The big difference between you and i is that you live in paradise and i live in a place where rain is mostly every day ... wait a minute, does that count? .
i do like the ideas and i'll keep it in mind when i'm buying something

 

[mojoreef]

Gabby the concept of Phosban or simular is to bind disolved phsphate to a mineral called ferric oxide (or hydroxide pending on the product). What this is, is a nitch product, with in the Phosphate cycle their is a brief period where the P becomes dissolved and if it passes through that media at that time it will be bound up. So is it the fix for P problems...No but it will get some. Things to watch out for are adding to much at any given time, if you do it will cause a big PH drop which could kill things, also make ure you give it a good rice prior to use and use a very slow flow o run through it.

The bottom line to algae control is to slow down the input you do(what kind of foods, how much foods, types of additives and so on) and to export as much as you can.
So when you go to turkey baste your rocks, suck the stuff up and toss it instead of just blowing it back into the tank. The use of a skimmer will help you control doc's and some organic forms and particulate if you run it correctly.
When trying to use natural methods such as no skimmer, algae and nutrientsinks such as CC or sand you are basically waiting for the material to compost (a long process) then you are tieing up the nutrients into biomass, most of that biomass is bacterial, macor and micro and then some into vegitation. WIth the vegitation you can perform some actual exporting but the rest just become biomass, which leads to more and more biomass which is in the best of times subject to flux and most of the time is very unstable. Again the best method is to control input and do your best to have a positive export.


hope it helps


Mike