Pinched Mantle

[Sherman]

...Anyway, I am now on the second week of both treating for Red Bugs (Interceptor) and flat worms (Flat Worm Exit). The first week, I did one and a half the recommended dosage of FWE followed by carbon and then did the Red Bug treatment followed by carbon and a water change and all the regular procedures for each treatment. The second week, I did two times the FWE followed by another Red Bug treatment. The third treatment will be done this next Tuesday with a three times FWE treatment followed by the Red Bug treatment. So... after having done the two treatments twice now, all my clams show no signs of pinching what-so-ever and are now extending their mantles as they did prior to the pinching. The only other changes to the tank during this time period were the replacement of a one year old UV lamp and all my 2 year old VHO bulbs.

Whether either treatment is the cause for my clam's improvements I am not sure but a fellow club member is going to try an Interceptor dip on his clam which is also showing pinching. If there is no sign of improvement, he will then try the FWE. We'll see how this does. I just wanted to share my experience in the hopes that others will try this and possibly find a treatment that is effective and permanent.

Joseph

That's me. My 3" crocea has had PM since November. Here's the update.

I did the Interceptor treatment 2 weeks ago. I set up my water change bucket with a heater, small powerhead, and rested a light on top. It was probably a pretty heavy dose, it's so hard to measure Interceptor into a 5g bucket. I just used the dust in the bottom of the little medicine cup I have. The clam was just as open in the bucket as in the tank. The very next day, I saw definite better extension, though nothing truly remarkable, and it never improved.

Here's the clam, before Interceptor, and the next day after.

Yesterday, I did a 1 hour Flatworm Exit treatment, using the same water change bucket/method as the Interceptor. Again, the clam was as open as when in the tank. This time, however, I saw it pulse a few times, about 30 minutes into the treatment. I'm starting to wonder if PM has been right beneath our noses this whole time. Freshwater dips work for PM, at least temporarily. And we all know how much flatworms love freshwater. Weatherson noticed improvement in his clams about a week after the treatment, and have looked perfect ever since. We'll see how things look mid next week.

For now, this is what the clam looked like 15 minutes after being introduced back into the display tank. I've never seen it slime quite this much, so we know SOMETHING is different, just no idea what yet.

 

[chris&barb]

a few days ago,over on Barry's forum someone posted that there clam was showing signs of PM and i seggested that they run extrs GAC. and today they reported back that it cleared up already

 

[chris&barb]

Sherman, any updates?

 

[Sherman]

Not a lot to report, no. The sliming hasn't slowed down since the FWE. In talking with Weatherson, he said he started noticing a difference right around the 1 week period, which would be tomorrow. However, he was also doing weekly FWE doses. He was also doubling up carbon and swapping it out weekly.

I've always run real heavy on the carbon. I use about 3/4 cup in this 38g, and swap it out every 3 weeks or so, with weekly rinses to get rid of the crap buildup (literally).

I thought I'd try one more FWE dip at this week's water change. The clam doesn't really seem to care about it, so I don't think it's a stress situation. If that doesn't work, I'm going to try fresh carbon every other day for a week, or so.

 

[chris&barb]

If that doesn't work, I'm going to try fresh carbon every other day for a week, or so.

instead of that (changing it every few days) run 2,3 or 4x what you are now, in a flow through container, and if you are running any type of GFO, have the effluent run through GAC also

 

[Sherman]

Alright, that's doable. I run the carbon in an AquaClear 70 now. There's room for more carbon. No GFO for me, but thanks for making me search the Web and learn a new acronym.

Granulated Ferric Oxide (PhosBan, PhosGard, etc.)

 

[chris&barb]

do you add trace elements of any kind?

 

[Sherman]

Nope. I'm one of those minimalist types. I do 14% water changes weekly and religiously, with IO. I use kalkwasser for 100% topoff. I dose Ca/buffer/mag, as needed, trying to maintain levels. I'm in the process of building a calcium reactor so I can stop the dosing. Nothing else ever makes it into the tank. (except fish food). Oh, and I use mechanical filtration in the powerfilter, before the carbon, to pick up the junk. I replace that weekly. It's basically just a filter sock, except I don't have a sump to place it in, so I use the powerfilter.

 

[chris&barb]

are you running extra carbon? any change?

 

[Sherman]

I just now added a lot more carbon. I'm running about 3 to 4 cups in my 38g, now. I'll keep you posted. Again.

 

[Sherman]

48 hours later, I'm not seeing any difference in the clam. However, my green monti cap has stopped extending polyps (but the other two caps are fine), and one colony of zoanthids has closed up just a bit (though all of several other colonies are doing fine).

I'll ride this out for a week, at least. But so far, the only differences have been a negative effect on two corals. Carbon is HBH Aqua-Pure, because that's what I had on hand. I'm running it in three separate filter bags in my Aquaclear 70 (300gph) cascade filter.

 

[chris&barb]

the polyp retraction may be do to the water being clearer, and more light reaching the corals

 

[Sherman]

Here's two weeks. No change with carbon. (bumped it up from 3/4 cup to 4 cups in 38g). The only change was I lost a zoanthid colony, unfortunately. I'm going to do another quarantined FWE dip on the clam at next water change.

We're now on about 4 months that this clam's had PM. What's odd is it's still growing new flutes on the shell! It's still growing with PM. There's still a tiny amount of slime appearing, as well.

 

[NaH2O]

Sherman - my clams did continue to grow despite the PM, as well.

 

[Sherman]

I added a calcium reactor, and a large millepora has decided to grow over the top and shade the clam in question, so I had to move the clam. The clam's been in the shade for a few weeks (shame on me), and is really looking bad. It was barely reacting to light any more, and more pinched than ever before. The shell was also not being pulled closed any more. This called for action, obviously.

While I may lose this clam, I'd still like to test the final portion of my experiment started a few months ago. Interceptor and FWE at the same time, which appears to have worked for Weatherson (though possibly coincidental). I do 5 gallon water changes, so I used the water change water as my quarantine. To this 5g, I added the clam and a small amount of Interceptor. The Interceptor pill is intended for 300g, so there's no good way to dose 5g, I'm sure it was more than prescribed. I just crumbled a small chip of the pill into dust and put it into the water.

I let this go with a powerhead and light for 4 hours. At the 4th hour, I added 8 drops of Salifert's Faltworm Exit. Typical dose is 1 drop per gallon, so this is a slight increase as well, but I thought I had a bubble or two when dripping, so I made sure.

This combination stayed in the water an additional 3 hours, for a total QT time of 7 hours. The clam was put back into the tank, though lights were already out. I will swap out my carbon with a standard amount of carbon in the morning. As before, I'll keep you posted as to what happens. In Weatherson's case, the clams' health returned in roughly a week.

As a side note, I added a pair of 2.5" maximas about a month ago, and both are doing well.

 

[NaH2O]

Let us know how it goes Sherman!

 

[Sherman]

Well... nothing.

Here's how its looked for the last 7 months. Most people are amazed it's not dead.

The two maximas are still doing wonderfully.

 

[chris&barb]

so that Crocea is holding that color and that mantle extention but no shell growth? when was the last time you gave that clam a FWD and how are you running your carbon?

 

[Sherman]

The clam's never had a FWD. The clam is now mounted to base rock, so I'd have to cut byssal strands to get it out now. How often is it OK to do this? I had to cut them recently, when the clam became shaded by the ever-growing millepora.

There's also slight shell growth, but it appears to be slowing. I ran the extra amounts of carbon for a while, but just brought it back to one standard media bag full now. I rinse it weekly (or try to), and replace it monthly. It's used 24/7 through a HOB cascade filter.

EDIT: And you'd call that mantle extension? What you see right there is as extended as I've ever seen it in months. The very top has always been slightly more extended than the rest, but still not even close to when I got it.

 

[chris&barb]

start running the carbon hard again, remove the clam for a 20 min FWD and then back in the tank