Pinched Mantle
- Thread starter NaH2O
- Start date
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Mike, I have started applying a lot of pressure on these guys!!! Can you beleive I received an oversea call from Vietnam today asking ME FOR help!! LOL Talk about hard to understand!! Myabe next time you can translate for me, if not then maybe Nikki. 
I told them what they had to do with there raceways and also best to quarantine before shipping out and mentioned a few medications that I have been told to use. Still waiting for the lab to get back to me. Left a few messages today and hopefully will hear from them my week-end.
I told them what they had to do with there raceways and also best to quarantine before shipping out and mentioned a few medications that I have been told to use. Still waiting for the lab to get back to me. Left a few messages today and hopefully will hear from them my week-end.
Travis
SPS Obsessed
Great thread guys! I've read a lot of pinching threads in the past couple years but never once was the focus on finding out the cause.
First, I would like to say that, NO, I can guarantee that this protozoan is not species specific. I've been dealing with the pinching for close to 2 years now. I've had it on croceas, maximas, squamosas, and derasas. AFAIK, Minh Nguyen was the first to come up with the freshwater dip and tried it out for the first time on a large gigas just under 2 years ago. So that also confirms that it also affects gigas. The only clam that I've owned that didn't seem to have it was a Hippopus. Gee, I wonder why.:lol: Probably because its mantle doesn't extend over its shell.
I started out with 30 minute dips in RO/DI water that was aerated and the temp and ph was matched. As stated in this thread, the pinching always came back. I bumped the time up to 45 and still the pinching came back. It got to the point where removing all 15 clams to FW dip them became a bi-weekly "routine". There was one time where I forgot to set the timer and left the room to do a few things and completely forgot about the clams in the dip. I can't say for certain how long the dip lasted but it was for sure longer than 60 minutes. The results were still the same. The clams looked a bit stressed for the first few hours afterwards and then would look excellent with no pinching. Then, the pinching would start coming back after a couple days. I finally "gave up" on dipping my clams and decided I would let nature take its course. This was after my tank crashed over a year ago, but I never lost any clams. I had the clams in a quarantine tank and they started dying for no apparent reason. I would lose about 1 every week or 2. It wasn't until I was down to 3 that I finally found out it was my Foxface rabbitfish nipping at the mantles that was killing my clams. That was at the beginning of last summer.
At the end of the summer the clams were moved to a newly setup 400 gallon system. They now reside in a 40 gallon clam tank with no fish, which is connected to my main system. I have had all 3 of these clams for close to 2 years now. There is a 7" derasa, a 5" derasa, and a 4" maxima. When they went into the new system they all had the disease. However, after a few months the larger derasa and the crocea stopped pinching and have not pinched since. The smaller derasa still continues to pinch but grows pretty fast, which leads me to believe it is still "healthy" and the disease won't kill it.
I have absolutely no idea why two of the clams seemed to kick the disease but the other still has it. I wonder if they are eventually able to build up an immunity. One thing I'm sure of is that the disease is contagious. Back when I had 15 clams it started in 1 clam and slowly spread to the others. What is strange is that the 3 remaining clams are all within a few inches of each other but only the one continues to pinch. This is what makes me think the other two may have built up an immunity.
I'm glad we finally have a thread going with some people in the industry that are willing to get to the bottom of this once and for all. Thank you very much Barry. And thank you to everyone else who has contributed to this and other mantle pinching threads.
First, I would like to say that, NO, I can guarantee that this protozoan is not species specific. I've been dealing with the pinching for close to 2 years now. I've had it on croceas, maximas, squamosas, and derasas. AFAIK, Minh Nguyen was the first to come up with the freshwater dip and tried it out for the first time on a large gigas just under 2 years ago. So that also confirms that it also affects gigas. The only clam that I've owned that didn't seem to have it was a Hippopus. Gee, I wonder why.:lol: Probably because its mantle doesn't extend over its shell.
I started out with 30 minute dips in RO/DI water that was aerated and the temp and ph was matched. As stated in this thread, the pinching always came back. I bumped the time up to 45 and still the pinching came back. It got to the point where removing all 15 clams to FW dip them became a bi-weekly "routine". There was one time where I forgot to set the timer and left the room to do a few things and completely forgot about the clams in the dip. I can't say for certain how long the dip lasted but it was for sure longer than 60 minutes. The results were still the same. The clams looked a bit stressed for the first few hours afterwards and then would look excellent with no pinching. Then, the pinching would start coming back after a couple days. I finally "gave up" on dipping my clams and decided I would let nature take its course. This was after my tank crashed over a year ago, but I never lost any clams. I had the clams in a quarantine tank and they started dying for no apparent reason. I would lose about 1 every week or 2. It wasn't until I was down to 3 that I finally found out it was my Foxface rabbitfish nipping at the mantles that was killing my clams. That was at the beginning of last summer.
At the end of the summer the clams were moved to a newly setup 400 gallon system. They now reside in a 40 gallon clam tank with no fish, which is connected to my main system. I have had all 3 of these clams for close to 2 years now. There is a 7" derasa, a 5" derasa, and a 4" maxima. When they went into the new system they all had the disease. However, after a few months the larger derasa and the crocea stopped pinching and have not pinched since. The smaller derasa still continues to pinch but grows pretty fast, which leads me to believe it is still "healthy" and the disease won't kill it.
I have absolutely no idea why two of the clams seemed to kick the disease but the other still has it. I wonder if they are eventually able to build up an immunity. One thing I'm sure of is that the disease is contagious. Back when I had 15 clams it started in 1 clam and slowly spread to the others. What is strange is that the 3 remaining clams are all within a few inches of each other but only the one continues to pinch. This is what makes me think the other two may have built up an immunity.
I'm glad we finally have a thread going with some people in the industry that are willing to get to the bottom of this once and for all. Thank you very much Barry. And thank you to everyone else who has contributed to this and other mantle pinching threads.
Travis
SPS Obsessed
BTW, I will try to get a pic of my derasa that still pinches and post it tomorrow.
roy
Active member
Yeah a great thread and quality information, this explanis why I am FWDing my clams every week!
Travis,
Let me say that we appreciate your contribution to this thread and I will add your information to the many piles of documentation I have gathered over the past few years.
In some cases I have found that the infected area will sometimes secrete a mucus and some micro bubbles and that will sometime attract fish and inverts such as crabs and have been known to feed on the mucus. Just my observation.
The lab has not come back with more information but I was assured they are working on it. One thing that they did treat one clam with and it appeared to work is metronidazole, which I have ordered and will treat the croceas that I have in quarantine. Will have to play with the dosage to see what works best. Another chemist has suggested that I try quick cure and doxycycline The last medication that I listed is a Rx product and quit expensive. I would suggest not any of these products to your reef tank at this time, till we find out how reef safe it might be. IMO
Let me say that we appreciate your contribution to this thread and I will add your information to the many piles of documentation I have gathered over the past few years.
In some cases I have found that the infected area will sometimes secrete a mucus and some micro bubbles and that will sometime attract fish and inverts such as crabs and have been known to feed on the mucus. Just my observation.
The lab has not come back with more information but I was assured they are working on it. One thing that they did treat one clam with and it appeared to work is metronidazole, which I have ordered and will treat the croceas that I have in quarantine. Will have to play with the dosage to see what works best. Another chemist has suggested that I try quick cure and doxycycline The last medication that I listed is a Rx product and quit expensive. I would suggest not any of these products to your reef tank at this time, till we find out how reef safe it might be. IMO
Travis
SPS Obsessed
Barry N. said:
That does make sense. I have noticed the mucous secretions near the pinching areas. I just could't believe how secretive my foxface was. I lost so many clams before I found out what was happening. It wasn't until one day when I snuck into the room and hid so I could see the tank but the fish couldn't see me and I just sat and watched it for a couple hours before I found the culprit. Initially, I though I had introduced a deadly disease into the tank because this all started shortly after adding the first new clams in many months. I read posts in the past about a clam introducing a deadly disease that would wipe out all of the clams in a tank so that is why I thought that was what was happenin.
I think you are referring to some clams that Flying Fish use to carry before closing their doors. Remember that well.
I know for a fact that was a bad batch of clams that was being housed at an underground wholesalers and once I saw that place, I wouldn't have bought the batch for 20.00. Raceways were deplorable and just had NO lights over the tanks.
Travis
SPS Obsessed
Barry, I wasn't aware of that. Sure am glad FFE is no longer in business.
Here are the pics of my derasa. It has been about 9 months since this clam last recieved a FW dip. And, yes, I am aware of the red flatworms.
In this second pic you can clearly see some of the slime that is being produced near the pinching areas. You can also see that, despite the pinching mantle, the clam has continued to grow at a pretty good rate.
Here are the pics of my derasa. It has been about 9 months since this clam last recieved a FW dip. And, yes, I am aware of the red flatworms.
In this second pic you can clearly see some of the slime that is being produced near the pinching areas. You can also see that, despite the pinching mantle, the clam has continued to grow at a pretty good rate.
When I mentioned FFE. It wasn't their warehouse but where the clams were kept before FFE bought them for re-sale.
I do see the micro bubbles and mucus on the derasa. They will secret the mucus as a way of trying to rid the parasite.
I do see the micro bubbles and mucus on the derasa. They will secret the mucus as a way of trying to rid the parasite.
ok, this is what I have found out. The lab has used metronidazole with success and the dosage they recommend is 1 tesp = 5 grams so in our quarantine tank (60 gallon) I will use 5 grams. They said that it is reef safe so that is why I am going to dose my quarantine tank first before doing my other tanks. I know you didn't want to hear,reef safe Mike but they assured me it is a medication and shouldn't harm any reef animals.
Will keep you posted.
Will keep you posted.
the mad reefer
Active member
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- Aug 1, 2004
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- 43
please do keep us posted. I have been following this thread from the begining. I have 3 t crocea and 2 maxima's that show signs of pm. thanks for all the hard work barry!!
Last edited:
NaH2O
Well-known member
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- Jan 25, 2004
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I would urge those trying any treatments to do so in a quarantine situation. Even though it is said to be reef safe - it is possible it may upset a balance in a reef tank. There are so many microscopic organisms in a tank, that I'd hate for someone to have problems from treating the tank. I'm not so much concerned about inhabitants such as fish, but for the microorganisms that are on live rock. I understand it is an antiprotozoan agent....I still worry about it in a display.
Barry - did the lab do any research on how long the protozoan can survive without a host? Is the metronidazole you are going to use a prescription, or something over the counter? I noticed SeaChem has a product that is metronidazole based called AquaZole.
Barry - did the lab do any research on how long the protozoan can survive without a host? Is the metronidazole you are going to use a prescription, or something over the counter? I noticed SeaChem has a product that is metronidazole based called AquaZole.
the mad reefer
Active member
- Joined
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this is my next? so is this something you have to treat the whole tank with? or can you quarentine to administer the antibiotic and leave the main tank fallow of clams for a period of time? I have just done some reading on metronidazole and it say's it attacks and kills anaerobic bacteria. would this not affect a sandbed or lr?
the mad reefer
Active member
- Joined
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nikki, i just got the new petsolutions catalog and they have metronidazole 5g for 4.99.
steve-s
Well-known member
Too true....Metronidazole is a type of antibiotic that can affect anaerobic nitrification specifically. It may also hamper aerobic bacteria's. It really should be used in a QT only but it does work very well against protozoa.NaH2O said:
They also sell it as a stand alone Metronidazole, the Aquazole is only ½ strength mixed with potassium sulfate.
Cheers
Steve
Hey Steve great to see you hanging round, love reading your posts!
Thier is no such medicine that is reef safe really. To be specific to a protozoa say not not effect bacteria seems to me anyway really reaching. I dought the lab true understands the the complexicity of the divercity of a reef tank.
Regardless a possible cure is outstanding news!! Imo QT only for sure in the initial testing, until someone wants to roll the dice on thier reef. Barry make sure you crank up the flow in your QT when doing this treatment.
good luck and keep us posted and lots of pictures please....lol
Mike
Thier is no such medicine that is reef safe really. To be specific to a protozoa say not not effect bacteria seems to me anyway really reaching. I dought the lab true understands the the complexicity of the divercity of a reef tank.
Regardless a possible cure is outstanding news!! Imo QT only for sure in the initial testing, until someone wants to roll the dice on thier reef. Barry make sure you crank up the flow in your QT when doing this treatment.
good luck and keep us posted and lots of pictures please....lol
Mike
