Powder Blue Parasite, Help!

[Rea17]

I'm set up with high light/high flow, my problem is that my corals are placed where a magnifica would like to live. Currently running 3 250w metal halides with 4 96w T5s to supplement, and a vortech mp60 with some high gph powerheads. My tangs love the flow, the PBT especially.

 

[Rea17]

Well, since my past post the fish has had 1 or 2 spots at a time. I didn't let it concern me too much because it wasn't affecting my other fish and the PBT wasn't getting any worse. I followed Lee's instructions for orally administering the Praziquantel, the treatment had no result. Over the past 2 days the condition of the PBT has gotten much worse, so I caught her and placed her in a QT tank for observation and possible treatment. I posted pictures, and they aren't fabulous, but they show the problem better than the previous ones. Let me know if you have any new insight. If not, then I may have to consider euthanasia if she continues to get worse. I have tried every treatment that Lee listed with little to no results.

 

[Rea17]

Also, note the possible inflamation at the bases of the fins.

 

[NC2WA]

IMO, it looks like Ich, but would like Lee's opinion..

 

[Rea17]

Ich is much smaller and grain-like. This stuff gets pretty long and nasty, and ich treatments have had no long-term effect.

 

[Maxx]

That's not ich.

Would Fluke treatments work I wonder? Or maybe a formalin bath?

That would handle the exterior parasites at least....


Nick

 

[NanaReefer]

Throw a cleaner shrimp in there with him

 

[Rea17]

I have 3 cleaner shrimp in my display tank. At first they were keeping up with the spots but lately they haven't been able to. Cleaners aren't a cure anyway. I am going to treat the PBT with cupramine again until I hear from Lee. Last time the fish was showing these symptoms the cupramine helped but obviously didn't kill the parasite off entirely.

 

[leebca]

Hopefully, someday hobbyists will realize the truth about cleaner fishes and cleaner shrimp. I have repeated it here in this form and other forms for the last five years. They don't clean all marine ich parasites. Studies that have opened up their intestines have never found marine ich parasites consumed from infected fishes. What is found is what I have written in this old post: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/cleaner-fishes-invertebrates-picky-fishes-55205/

When a spot disappears that means there are more parasites being prodeced. All this is assuming that the diagnosis was correct. There are a few parasites which mimic Marine Ich however they aren't many. The best thing to do is to switch over to a Cupramine treatment. This copper treatment will kill off many more parasites like Marine Ich.

Anyway this particular condition I have seen a few times before. It is not marine Ich. The loose filaments are a combination of mucous (which the shrimp is enjoying) and parasite waste. However Cuperamine combined with freshwater dips has been known to kill off this parasite. Proceed with the Cuperamine treatment and then every other day give the fish in freshwater dip. Although this is difficult and hard on the fish, it does effect the cure.

 

[Rea17]

Thanks Lee. I started the cupramine treatment last night and I will start the FW dips asap. How contagious is this disease? Should I remove my other fish that have not shown symptoms and follow the same treatment methods?

 

[NC2WA]

Lee,

For my knowledge is the latest pics posted MI ?

 

[leebca]

After composing my reply, Internet went down. That was 2 hours ago. Anyway. . .

Rea,

This parasite has only recently been brought to my attention (1 year ago). *I have not found it on any fish I've gotten. *(Many sand sifters seem to get this). I know only that it favors fishes that stay and/or sleep on the tank bottom. *Once in the DT it can show up again on the same or other fishes that hang near the bottom. *However, it is not strongly contagious. *The fish's natural mucous coating seems to be the best fish's defense. *Since cleaner fishes and cleaner shrimp are known to eat and remove fish mucous, they need to be removed from having access to the fish. *Also, providing the best nutrition for a strong mucous layer helps ward this away.

Know also this: *the copper-FW dip treatment is only about 70% successful to date. *The copper-formalin combo has about the same or a bit higher success rate.

I have asked college professors and specialized vets and they don't know. *I've even sent them great photos of infected fish. *Until I or they can get a living fish infected with this (in oder to study) we are still in the dark.

If I had had a picture that showed this earlier we could have begun this treatment before. *Sorry.

 

[leebca]

NC2WA,

Definitely not MI. Needed that one close up of the 'spots' from different angles in order to differentiate/tell that it wasn't MI. Lost a lot of treatment time. Hope fish will make it.

 

[Rea17]

It's ok, I couldn't get decent pictures of the fish in the display tank. Symptoms were pretty minimal until the past few days. Today the fish has double the amount of visible white filaments. I will proceed with the treatment that you recommended. Do you still stand by the shorter FW dip period that you stated earlier in this thread? (7-8 minutes per dip versus the 30 minutes you recommend in your article.)

You mentioned that this parasite favors sand sifters, would leopard wrasses be particularly vulnerable to it? I have a beautiful pair that I've had in refugium-like QT for a while now, but I have been putting off adding them due to the PBT. I saw photos of something similar on another forum on someone's blue dot jawfish, so that would make sense.

I will keep the rest of my fish in the display for now, I see no sense in stressing them by catching them and putting them through harsh treatment if they aren't sick at this time. I will continue to soak their foods in vitamin and amino acid supplements to help boost their immune systems. I'm not sure exactly how the life cycle of this parasite works, but it either survived the fallow period or it survived the long treatment period on my PBT. Either way it's scary =/ I am just concerned about treating the fish, placing it in the display (again), and having the same sickness pop up (again). I would really hate to have to put the fish down, but for the sake of my other fish I may have to. If anyone wants this fish for research purposes I am open to giving her up.

 

[Rea17]

Also, were you suggesting that I remove the cleaners from my display? Or just to keep them away from the PBT?

 

[Maxx]

Rea17

FWIW, I've seen this parasite once in my system. It was in the Regal angel pictured previously.

Oddly enough, I run my display tank BB and it never returned.

Is it possible that the parasite has some sort of lifecycle stage that requires a sandbed in order to reproduce and survive?

Just spit balling here....

Nick

 

[Rea17]

I think it's anybody's guess until some real research is done. How long did you have your angel before it showed signs?

The people that I got the PBT from had the fish in a tank with a lot of imported live rock and probably sand as well. I cure all my own rock because I'm paranoid about pests like aiptasia as well as parasites and diseases that affect fish. Could that be where something like this came from? Could stress from a move cause an outbreak if the PBT was already carrying the parasite? I think stress was definitely a contributing factor in the relapse. The large hippo tang that I have was giving the PBT a hard time. I removed the hippo but the PBT continued to get worse.

I am mostly worried about the future of my tank here. Should I be afraid to add fish? How will I know if it's actually gone? etc

 

[Maxx]

I didnt have it long...maybe a few months when the pictures were taken.

I dont have the answers to your other questions.

Start with treating the fish and getting it healthy.

Worry about the other things later.

JMO,

Nick

 

[NC2WA]

To answer your question about leopard wrasses..
They bury themselves in the sand at night so I would not add them to the tank

 

[leebca]

Ria,

I'll try to answer as many of your questions as I can, but information about this is scarce.

1. Do the shortened FW dip time.
2. Can't say anything about which fishes it favors -- just those that spend a lot of time or sleep on the substrate.
3. Doesn't seem to be connected with stress -- directly. Like I wrote, care of the natural mucous coating is the best defense.
4. Who knows where it comes from? Can't say much of that until we know more. But in the meantime, try not to go beserk or crazy about this. Don't make up dragon windmills to fight.
5. Those who have cured their fish of this have put them into their DT and the originally ill fishes are still alive today, without other fishes being infected. It's a bit of a mystery.

A situation like this invites all sorts of conjecture and guessing. I go by the facts and they are what I have presented. Avoid extrapolating or taking the facts further then what they are. Based on 5. -- cure this fish or euthanize it. Don't put it into the main DT until traces of this parasites are gone. If it is 'clean' for a few weeks, it should be good to go. There are no guarantees, only the above facts, so far.