QT for Acro Eating Flatworms

[btuck]

With regards to these new developments will you be receiving the second shipment of corals from said friend? Is it worth it in your opinion to even try and take them off her hands? And lastly, and this is the most important question. Will there still be frags for me?

Ok seriously I know you have worked your butt off trying to get these little guys to survive so I do hope you have some success.

How's the little one...did her fever break?

 

[NaH2O]

I do think it is worth it, number one to try and save the corals, number two, they may not have as bad (if at all) of an infestation, and number three they are beautiful!

Frags for you? Of course there will be frags....but we'll see what happens on poker night. lolol

 

[NaH2O]

Ugh!!!

I HATE AEFs!!!

OK - so the Granulosa is starting to not look so good anymore. I pulled it out and allowed it to dry a bit, so I could give a good inspection. Low and behold....what did I see? They teeniest little AEFs :evil:! I am going to order the Fluke tabs, and in the meantime do Betadine dips. I did a dip on Saturday with Betadine, and roasted as many AEFs as I could. I looked and looked for eggs, but didn't see any. One conclusion I came up with was these had hatched prior to the egg removal, but were so small I couldn't see them.....and the Levamisole didn't do a thing to them.

Anyway, thought I'd post the update. Mungus - if you're still following the thread, did you ever hear from the person in Italy doing Betadine dips? I'm curious as to the length of time between dips. I'm thinking I should do them more often than once a week. *sigh*

 

[mavgi]

:shock: ouch and i am thinking to go all sps it's realy scare i read a lot of post at RC ppl don't know if it's worth to keep them more it's very hard to fight AEFWs as i see .
i realy don't have knowledge on coral keeping and here it's another mistake i do i never read about coral and i thught it's easy then fish just start to read some info in RC about 1 week...

by the way if i buy sps and it's healty the coral can infect in the future with red bug or aefws ?

 

[mungus]

Nikki sorry I didn't get back to you earilier. I can't get ahold of the guy in Italy. I've sent him a couple of messages and never get a reply back. I do agree that the dips should be done more that once a week. How often though, I do not know. I will try to get a hold of him one more time today but I can't promise anything.

Brian

 

[mungus]

Nikki I feel like an idiot. I was e-mailing the wrong person this whole time. I can just imagine what they were thinking when they got my e-mails.:lol:

Here is the response I got today when I wrote the correct person.:lol:

hi Brian
the baths to the coral can be repeated but to wait at least 7 days before repeating and to wait that the coral recovers the strength
three mls (betadine) in a liter of water withdrawn from the tub and to leave 25 minutes and then shaking the coral the parasite he detaches dead

the best precaution is to also make the treatment to the new corals just purchased in the shop

good evening

HTH

Brian

 

[NaH2O]

ROFL Brian! Thanks for passing on the info. The person could have at least sent a reply email saying, "what the heck are you talking about??" :lol:

mavgi - There are a lot of people that are starting to feel keeping SPS isn't worth it anymore. You can, absolutely, have a healthy display of corals and introduce redbugs or AEFs that infect the corals. Its not only acros (talking SPS)...Montiporas can get infected with Monti eating nudibranchs .

 

[Scooterman]

Has this always been a problem because I seem to hear more about these issues more now than ever. Wish we had a reasonable QT procedure that we knew would work. The good thing about all this, eventually there will be a series of QT procedures & it will work, I think too many people want to keep sps to some level.

 

[Vtec Si]

Hello all, I haven't posted in sometime but Charlie lead me to this post due to the same stupid AEFW's that showed up in my 300! WAPITA! The thing is in my tank only the Purple torts have been hit by these nasty thing. But I have decided to pull all Acros except milles out and qt them. My question is how long befor thy can go back in to diplay tank? How do I know if they are gone? I am to the point that acros are to much work and it getting to the point of not being fun anymore!

Martin

 

[little fishes]

Hey martin- If you are going to go through the hassle you might as well do the millies to- I have read posts where people have found them to be infected and if you remove the rest of the acros for the series of treatments hoping that the AFWs will starve in the mean time- the millies will likely be enough to keep them alive in the system to re-infect the rest. better to be safe if you are going to go through the hassle IMO
Cheers

 

[NaH2O]

I agree. You would want to make sure all acros are removed. The question on how long is a good question. You want to be sure it is long enough that the eggs have all hatched out, and the AEFWs have died from starvation. I would say at least 4 weeks. If you figure the day you remove the acros, if there are any AEFWs crawling around that didn't get removed can still lay eggs up until they die would be one week. Add another week for those eggs to hatch out, then another week for those to die off from lack of food, and finally another week just to make sure they are all gone. Of course, you'd need to make sure any encrusting portion of the acro has been removed as well. It may take that long in QT to irradicate them.

Martin - what have you currently been doing with the corals? Do you know what your course of action is going to be in QT?

 

[Rod Buehler]

IME, millies are just as easily infested with the AEFW. Infact thats where i first noticed them

 

[shallowreef]

Now i'm not 100% sure on this but the only way you can get flatworms is by importing them into your tank, correct?

 

[Maxx]

i'm not 100% sure on this but the only way you can get flatworms is by importing them into your tank, correct?

Correct. These are an acro specific pest.. they will not eat anything other than acros....not stylo's, seritopora's, monti's etc....
No acro's means no flatworms, (w/ in 5-7 days).

approximately what size were the FWs and egg masses? Anyone know how long it would take to notice the FWs -if say- you only aquired one on your new acro colony? I do not want to do precautionary dips as there are acro crabs, brittle stars, and barnicles. Cheers,
Tracy

Tracy,
These egg masses are pretty tiny...think pin head size to the naked eye, they almost look like spots of algae to me. From what I've been able to read on them, its approximately 2 weeks before the AEFW's (SATAN!) become visible w/o a microscope or magnifying glass. Supposedly, they are able to reproduce during the microscopic stage...yay for our side....

IMO....precautionary dips are the only way to go. I "aquired" my AEFW's and a dose of redbugs for good measure from someone who was positive they didnt have them. Treat this like AID's or better yet Hep C and your thinking along the right track.

Salifert's Flatworm Exit will hold the AEFW at bay, and one of the two previously mentioned friends has had limited success with it. However, he's also spent several hundred dollars on the stuff, as his tank is 240g, and he uses multiple bottles of the FWE per dosing. And we're still not sure it works.

I first discovered AEFW's on an A. albrohensis frag. I used a turkey baster and managed to squirt a few loose. I promptly sucked these up and placed them in a small glass and added a double dose of FWE.
No reaction.
I tripled it.
Again, no reaction.
Quadruple dose.
No reaction.

Hit them w/ iodine.....they melted w/in a minute. So I'm not convinced FWE even bugs them at levels that dont begin to become double digit percentages of the water column.....at which point you begin to stress the crap out of everything else in the tank.

I have seen some acro colonies with redbugs that also had acro crabs.

Saw this in my own tank before we moved....

Should you QT & treat every sps for red bugs & flatworms?

Abso-damn-lutely....if you choose not to...advise anyone you decide to trade frags with....you just might be unintentionally giving them parasites....

I HATE AEFs!!!
I'm curious as to the length of time between dips. I'm thinking I should do them more often than once a week. *sigh*

I'd suggest giving the corals at least a week between dips, just to allow them to recover from being abused...

by the way if i buy sps and it's healty the coral can infect in the future with red bug or aefws ?

Yup....you sure can. Anything you introduce to your tank can potentially bring parasites.

Sorry be such a gloom and doomer........

Nick

 

[Scooterman]

Hit them w/ iodine.....they melted w/in a minute. So I'm not convinced FWE even bugs them at levels that dont begin to become double digit percentages of the water column.....at which point you begin to stress the crap out of everything else in the tank.

Ok Nick this iodine dip, how is it done & what kind Iodine are you using & will this Kill both creatures?

 

[Maxx]

I just used Two Little Fishies brand iodine dip...got it free w/ an order. Added enough to turn the water tea colored. I did dip my corals in it, for approx 15 minutes....they didnt like it much at all, not really sure if this could be used as a method of treatment for a month without losing corals due to stress. IMO, you would need to dip them once a week for at least 4 weeks to be sure....and even then, how can you be sure you didnt miss any?

Actually, thinking about this for a minute....if you set up three tanks:
Got them established, cycled etc......dip corals when you receive them, placed them into tank A for one week. Pull them out, dip them, place them into tank B for one week. Pull them out, dip them, place them in tank C for one week. By this time, any AEFW's that managed to survive and got off the coral in tank A will have starved to death...so tank should be AEFW free. Just keep it running w/ a damsel or something in it to maintain bio load....remember, your not treating this tank w/ any meds, you're just dipping corals in a bucket w/ iodine solution mixed w/ tank water.

If you continue in this manner for at least 4 weeks.....assuming the corals survive the stress of the dipping, you should be AEFW free.

Nick

 

[NaH2O]

The granulosa in QT finally succumbed to these little jerks. The last dip I did was a stronger Lugols dip for a longer period (and still found some adults clinging on), and then I followd up with a lengthy Levamisole dip. I'm not sure what did the coral in, so I won't make any speculations. It could have been combining the treatments, it could have been the coral was croaking anyway, it could have been too strong Lugols, etc.

On to round two. I went to my friend's house last night to get the remaining corals, and was very saddeded at the condition of all the acros. We did a lot of fragging, and I wasn't going to take any pieces that had eggs on them. We cut the corals as far from the eggs as we could, so instead of colonies (although I did keep one in tact) I have a bunch of frags. We did Lugols dips on everything before I took them home, and they don't look so hot today. I hope I can get even the smallest bits of acro to live and make it into my display. I want to get my hands on some Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure, as I hear it has good success. I'm thinking of perhaps combining treatments with the fluke tabs Rod mentioned earlier in the thread (provided the corals make it that long).

The non-acro corals are in their own QT. I'm thinking of giving them two weeks in QT, in order to give any possible eggs enough time to hatch out and AEFWs to die. I'm open to thoughts and ideas on this...

 

[DonW]

Nikki,

How fast do these things kill a coral? Assuming you bring one home from the lfs that looks good. How long before the coral starts dieing in the qt?

Don

 

[Scooterman]

Sounds like you almost need to set-up a frag tank, grow & treat them in as good as your main.

 

[NaH2O]

For me that would be difficult to answer because my only experience has been with corals that were severely infected. It would probably depend on the severity of the infestation, the size of the coral, and the amount of corals in QT. When I first acquired the few corals from my friend that were bad, the other corals in her tank looked good. When I went back on Friday, I could see the other corals were in really bad shape, so it didn't take long for the AEFWs to do severe damage once their population grew.

My plan for any new Acros I get is to inspect them very well, and remove them from any plug or rock before going into QT. When you let the coral dry for a several minutes (~5 minutes), you can look for slimey spots, that resemble tan mucus. Those are the flatworms. The key is to let the coral dry some, otherwise they are nearly impossible to see. I definately cannot see them on a coral that is in the tank. The eggs I can spot in an obvious bleached area if the coral is in a tank, but the actual worms I can't see. If there aren't any visible adult worms, then I might do a Lugol's dip and blast the coral some with a baster or powerhead, just to see if anything comes off. Something to keep in mind, is just because the coral doesn't have any noticable adults, does not mean eggs weren't laid somewhere on the coral. In several colonies I've looked at, alot of times the eggs were laid in the center of the coral down in the branches, on the underside of branches, and right at the coral's base. Kind of convienent for when the young hatch. It will take a week (at least that's what I keep hearing), for the eggs to hatch out, then you can start looking for small adults again. I'd say in two weeks time, you should be able to see the AEFWs on the coral, either by doing the dry method, or blasting it with a powerhead in a separate bucket. If there is only one coral in QT, then I can't imagine the coral lasting too long if the infestation gets bad. Hopefully, it would be caught early on. I would say at least 4 weeks in QT to assure there are no AEFWs on the coral before going into display, and check every week for flatworms. Once you see them on a coral, you know what to look for. Kind of like redbugs, once you see them, they are easy to spot.