RBTA or RLTA?

[class clown]

Sorry, but can we get back to the original question..

Why the long tenticles?

My observations: they bubble when I agitate it with my fingers or under stress. Otherwise, like Rick, mine are typically longer arms. Yet I know someone that has one that is pretty bubbly all of the time and one that's more of a longer tenticle version in the same tank. They must be different breeds of RBTA's right?

Ben

 

[aiko670]

Rod- Well said! I couldn't agree with you more nor can I even begin to fathom why a so called expert would recommend that we not keep anemones in the reef tank. If it weren't for the symbiotic relationship between a clown fish and an anemone I would have probably never started my first reef tank 13+ years ago. Next are we going to hear that we under no circumstances able to successfully have a mixed reef. I've been mixing softies(leathers) and SPS for years now with no ill affects. Run some carbon, do your water changes and you'll be fine.

The only thing I agree with Anthony on is the despicable conditions in which our corals/anemones/fish are collected and shipped. Hopefully a little education and encouragement of newbies will help that situation.

 

[SRV]

To SVR: (Rick?)

I've read wonderful reviews of a book called "Clownfish," for information about keeping anemones. I think there's a link to the book on that website I posted earlier in this thread.

Jan
Thanks, I'll check it out!
Rick

 

[NaH2O]

class clown - if you look at my posts eariler in the thread, you'll see a couple of theories on why some anemones bubble their tips and some do not.

Jan - here is a video of Anthony fragging an anemone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeQ8Dw1mnMo&mode=related&search=

 

[Anthony Calfo]

aiko... visit as many reefs as I have and you will understand quite clearly why it is unnatural to keep most anemone species with corals. I hope I don't have to warn you a second time about using taunting language ("so-called expert") with anyone on this board. If you can't debate/chat/post respectfully... you will be shown the door. At least out of my forum. If you don't like what I have to say... thats quite all right. But do be mature about the matter please and demonstrate that you can debate constructively without ill behavior.

Jan... correct my friend, my goal in promoting anemone production is largely to get folks (those "inevitable purchases as Rod notes indeed/rue) to free the hobby from dependence on wild imports. Moreover... these very slowly (naturally) reproducing creatures in the wild will stay on the reefs as ongoing contributing reproductive members. Thus leaving a specimen on the reef rather than collect it saves more than one life. It is quite tragic to visit reefs months and years after anemone collection. Their fecundity is dismal compared to other cnidarians. It takes some species (Stichodactyla, eg) decades to recover from even moderate collections

Rod, one of my principal arguments for not mixing anemones in reef tanks is that beyond the simulation of unnatural levels of allelopathic compounds among cnids in unnatural (xeno- indeed) mixes (garden reef aquaria)... there is the VERY real practical reality that the "irritated" anemone is a motile stinging organisms. And unlike the sessile corals that just sit there and take it frrom each other and kin, the anemones can and do move away (often to their tragedy or the tragedy of others... stinging/killing, overflows, pumps). Plain and simple... it is poor husbandry, an unnatural mix... and one that gets reckoned tragically more often than simple bad coral on coral mixes.

As for your recommendation of letting anemones wander around even in a non-reef tank... you'd be doing the hobby a sevice to remind folks you give this advice to that they must guard or avoid doing that in anks with pump intakes, weirs, overflows, etc. Such tanks are uncommon to say the least... hence my umbrage at your advice, still.

kind regards to all,

Anth-

 

[mcvicker]

I don't think breed of BTA has anything to do with the bubbles. I had an anenome split and gave the clone to a friend. It has been a year since then and mine is now about 3x the original size with no bubbles. His is still the original size with huge bubbles. Not sure why? Could be lighting, could be clownfish interaction (his maroon clown is much larger than my percula). Either way they are genetically identical and behaving diametrically opposite.
-chris

 

[Jan]

Anthony, what do you think of my plan to plumb my 30 gallon (BTA home) together with the sump that feeds my 120 mixed reef? I thought it would be positive to increase the overall water volume for stability reasons and better skimming, but the water from my mixed reef will then be fed to the 30 gallon and vice versa. Is this a recipe for harmful chemical stimulation? Do you feel that the risk of harm would outweigh the benefits of bringing the 30 gallon tank into the larger system?

Thankyou and my apologies for straying off the original topic...

 

[NaH2O]

Jan, are you running GAC (granular activated carbon)? What other filtration do you have (i.e. ozone, skimming, etc)?

 

[aiko670]

aiko... visit as many reefs as I have and you will understand quite clearly why it is unnatural to keep most anemone species with corals. I hope I don't have to warn you a second time about using taunting language ("so-called expert") with anyone on this board. If you can't debate/chat/post respectfully... you will be shown the door. At least out of my forum. If you don't like what I have to say... thats quite all right. But do be mature about the matter please and demonstrate that you can debate constructively without ill behavior.
Anth-

It's unnatural to keep most of the species we mix together in our reef "gardens" as they come all from all over the place. I'm going to leave it at that so I don't get kicked off your forum...

 

[Jan]

I do run GAC passively in my sump (near my return pump intake), and I have a good skimmer (BubbleMaster 200). I don't run ozone or anything else, though.

 

[craftytony]

I couldn't agree more with Rod and Aiko.

The statement:
As far as the "thinghs are better nowadays" with anemones... ahhhh, no. Park yoruself at any of the big LA whoelsalers any given week and note the condition of the anemones on import. Its the same as any other year (slaughter, frankly) driven by consumer failures that spur demand."

This comment didn't even have anything to do with this debate. Rod was talking about things are better now, as far as the equipment/expertise now available.

On the statement:
Although many people do it and get away with it for months... some years... that still does not make it right.

Some could make an argument about us keeping many of the other types of creatures in our "Glass Boxes" not being "right"

Personally I have seen many many mixed tanks that have successfully kept their anemones for many years. Like Rod stated, they will roam around until they find their "sweetspot" and this is best done in an established tank, that hasn't been overloaded with corals.

Anthony, I understand your point also as we shouldn't say that "newbies" can do this. But like Rod said, do your research first as with any other addition to your tanks

 

[Herefishyfishy]

As an experienced reefer who has kept salt since the 70s, I agree with Anthony. After over a year of happily being in the same spot in the back corner of the tank, my RBTA moved to right under a SEIO 2600 and sprayed pieces of it's tissue all over many softies and sps. One was a rare item that nearly died. "Shrimp happens" and when it does, with an anemone, it will be very bad news. Anemones do NOT belong in coral reef tanks.

On a side note about Mr Calfo, he has saved my tank many times. I wish I had 5% of his knowledge and experience and he deserves all the respect of any notable champion of marine species, third world countries, and/or our difficult hobby.

 

[NaH2O]

craftytony - Welcome to Reef Frontiers

Personally I have seen many many mixed tanks that have successfully kept their anemones for many years. Like Rod stated, they will roam around until they find their "sweetspot" and this is best done in an established tank, that hasn't been overloaded with corals.

Anthony, I understand your point also as we shouldn't say that "newbies" can do this. But like Rod said, do your research first as with any other addition to your tanks

I understand where Anthony is coming from. Yes, you say "do your research first as with any other addition to your tanks". Absolutely! So when Anthony gives the recommendations he does, someone gathering research can read his posts and weigh out the information along with those in disagreement like Rod and others. Anthony's opinion is greatly valued, as are other knowledgeable people to many hobbyists. Rod has some great success with his anemones. Not many people are as fortunate, at least not without the expense of losing their fair share of livestock along the way. I know alot of people may only read/look for what they want to hear anyway, so a person may read "you can keep an anemone with corals" and be on their merry way without continuing their research on the need to protect pumps, overflows, different species requirements, how the anemone may wander, etc. Because of this, we should do the animals we keep a favor by giving the best advice we can. If you disagree, that's fine, but try and understand how it may impact someone new to the hobby or new to researching animals. Not everyone is into researching livestock requirements as others, so giving the best advice we can is crucial.

 

[-=dieseldave=-]

I have three tanks with four of the same E. quadricolor (Splits). Two have no bubbles they are in tank together hosted by a pair of clowns. The other two are in two separate tanks with no hosting clowns, they both have very nice bubbles.
Based on my observations the hosted anemones seem to lose there bubbles after they are hosted for a bit of time. Maybe the bubbles are for protection/mask and or to attract a host. I also do not directly feed any of the anemones.
Thank you,
David

 

[Rod Buehler]

I think my original post was misunderstood.

First and foremost I do agree that setting up a biotope system for anemones is the best option, BUT that can be said for most of the animals that we keep in out tanks. The problem is, most/many dont have the option to set up different tanks for all of these different animals that are collected from different areas. Unfortunately most of the people are hobbyists, not purists.

The fact of the matter is that most hobbyists ARE keeping coral gardens and many will continue to add anemones to their coral garden. My advise from my original post in this thread was for those that are going to keep anemones with their coral to add the anemone before stocking the tank chock full of corals.

Look at it like this. Johnny really wants an anemone but he wants his corals too. Is it better for Johnny to add the anemone to an established tank without a ton of corals to let it settle in, find its spot and (if Johnny has done his research) make the anemone happy enough to where it will likely stay put.

Or is it better for Johnny to stock his tank with corals and then and the anemone to let it roam all over the corals causing problems.

keeping in mind that hobbyists are going to be adding anemones to their tank and not setting up a biotope like Anthony I and many others recommend, I still stand by this advice and in no way think that its such bad advice like Anthony thinks it is.

 

[Rod Buehler]

craftytony - Welcome to Reef Frontiers




I understand where Anthony is coming from. Yes, you say "do your research first as with any other addition to your tanks". Absolutely! So when Anthony gives the recommendations he does, someone gathering research can read his posts and weigh out the information along with those in disagreement like Rod and others. Anthony's opinion is greatly valued, as are other knowledgeable people to many hobbyists. Rod has some great success with his anemones. Not many people are as fortunate, at least not without the expense of losing their fair share of livestock along the way. I know alot of people may only read/look for what they want to hear anyway, so a person may read "you can keep an anemone with corals" and be on their merry way without continuing their research on the need to protect pumps, overflows, different species requirements, how the anemone may wander, etc. Because of this, we should do the animals we keep a favor by giving the best advice we can. If you disagree, that's fine, but try and understand how it may impact someone new to the hobby or new to researching animals. Not everyone is into researching livestock requirements as others, so giving the best advice we can is crucial.

Hi Nikki,

I pretty much agree, but also know that people will still keep anemones, so my advise to add an anemone to a tank without a lot of corals vs a tank that is loaded, is good advice. Atleast its better than not offering any advice to someone that is goingto keep an anemone reguardless of what they research or dont research.

 

[craftytony]

"I know alot of people may only read/look for what they want to hear anyway, so a person may read "you can keep an anemone with corals" and be on their merry way without continuing their research..."

I agree with you, BUT, i cannot control a person not fully researching a particular subject. On the flipside, someone could see the opposite viewpoint and NEVER add an anemone. I think Anthony and Rod both have valid points, and I don't think it's fair to shoot down Rod's opinion. I respect both parties in this discussion...

 

[danno14]

Each person believes their opinion to be right; otherwise they change their opinion. D

 

[aiko670]

I couldn't agree more with Rod and Aiko.

Thank you sir!

 

[mojoreef]

Reefkeeping is a series of causes and effects. You could do almost anything, BUT thier will always be an effect from something that you have caused.
I this conversation mixed reefs and anenomes are mentioned.
Mixed reefs - a mix of critters that use chemical and biological weapons to establish and gain territory for growth an survival put together with critters that dont use nor have defences against such warfare. Well even a newbie could answer this question, not a good idea and you will suffer losses do to it at some level. Can i be done?? sure but their are a number of things you need to do to implement any form of sucess. GAC, ozone a good idea, establish the toxic one first so they dont slime out other when first introduced, leave plenty of room around them so they dont sence harmones given off by close by corals and thus spew and so on and so on.

Anenomes. Besides most of them being very hard to keep alive or provide a proper enviroment, they pose a few more problems. First they sting for feeding and/or defence, never a good thing for other inhabitants, second they move around, some more then others, some will sit for years and then decide to move, sometimes something pisses them off and then they decide to move, sometimes they propagate and the nw one wanders and so on and so on.

So is it a good idea to have something in your tank that uses stratagies that other critters in your tank have no defence against?? No not really..( relate it to fish, would you keep a fish that likes to eat other fish in with the balance of fish in your tank??..would the arguement be.... well their are lots of hiding places??? or the smaller fish are fast??)

Now in saying that their are things you can do to be somewhat sucessfully to make it happen, but your always going to roll the dice somewhat. But you know what its our tanks and we can do as we wish, But we should do our best ALWAYS to make CLEAR to all of the folks that dont have the experence WHAT all of the pros and cons are. From thier its just a personal well educated choice.

mike