Red Bugs - Inevitable?

[Hooked]

I also wonder about developing Interceptor-resistant bugs. Is that really possible--you're exposed to a poison once and survive it, then you have a resistance to it? Just asking--I really don't know.

My six hours is up and I see lots of dead red bugs. Only see a couple hanging on to my blue (used to be blue anyhow) tenuis. This coral was the most heavily infested, and the only one that was noticably declining. I happy with the results and plan to repeat the treatment next weekend. I pulled the acro crabs out when they stopped moving and put them in my nano--hopefully, I'm not too late and they'll recover.

How long do I run the carbon?

 

[EricHugo]

I cannot comment on the effective dose level. I have only done the dose levels I mentioned, and I suggested careful examination of colonies to ensure all are dead. I also cannot comment on what the effective dose is in a whole tank treatment, and would imagine it entirely possible that the level will vary according to the tank, absorption, removal, etc. of the drug in a reef tank. Thus, the dose will be probably much lower than in a treatment tank..also, if not dissolving the drug well (i.e. seawater vs. DMSO or something). So, if treating a tank and not examining the colonies for 100% kill, then it is possible, even probable, that some will not be killed, and will be able to continue to reproduce. It's not necessarily that they willbe "resistant" and resistance would not likely build up in a crustacean the way it would in a microbe (hypermutable AB resistance genes, etc.), but simply that they will survive. Some selection might occur for resitance, but I doubt that is a major issue compared to drug dose levels. Larval stage, as mentioned, is not an issue since they are direct developers.

Eric

 

[Maxx]

Hey Kat,
How did things go?

Nick

 

[Hooked]

Actually I think it went pretty well Nick. Lost the crabs, but I still see some pods. It was really pretty painless (for me anyhow ) I think I'll do another dose next weekend. The tenuis that had the worst infestation appears to be clean, but it's still not extending its polyps like it used to. We'll see if it colors back up.

Thanks for the response Eric

 

[middletonmark]

So, if treating a tank and not examining the colonies for 100% kill, then it is possible, even probable, that some will not be killed, and will be able to continue to reproduce. It's not necessarily that they willbe "resistant" and resistance would not likely build up in a crustacean the way it would in a microbe (hypermutable AB resistance genes, etc.), but simply that they will survive. Some selection might occur for resitance, but I doubt that is a major issue compared to drug dose levels. Larval stage, as mentioned, is not an issue since they are direct developers.

I've been wondering about how resistance would/would-not develop with Interceptor ... thanks.

Silly red bugs, don't they know resistance is futile?

 

[Maxx]

Sorry to hear about the Acro crabs Kat...hopefully you nuked all the RedBugs....

LOL@ Mark...


Nick

 

[Lunchbucket]

just joined the board to jump on this thread..i looked at most of it

i will be dosing tomorrow w/ 2.5-2.75 small Salifet Test kit spoons on my 58gal tank w/ a 10gal sump (1/2full). from what my buddies have suggested 1 spoon should treat about 32gal. this seem right?

i would like to get by w/ 1 treatment to save the pods but if this isn't possible...then i will do 2. what you suggest Eric.

also i fear my emeralds are toast....i would try to catch them but i have NO where to put them...i guess i might have some water left i could put them in.

Lunchbucket

 

[NaH2O]

Lunchbucket - Welcome to Reef Frontiers!

I don't know how many grams of interceptor the salifert spoon holds, so I don't know if the dose amount is right. Maybe someone else can comment that has gone through the treatment process.

For a depleted pod population, you can always order from Ocean Pods to beef your copepod population back up.

In regards to the Emerald crabs - if you can, put them in a bucket of water with a heater and powerhead, then they should be fine. If you don't think that will work, maybe just stick them in a tupperware container of water floating in the sump, until you get through the water change portion of the treatment.

Hope this helps a bit. Let us know how the treatment goes!

 

[Lunchbucket]

well i put a DIY pop bottle trap in the tank for the emerald crabs tonight...hope they climb in there so i don't loose them. or my cleaner shrimp

i'll probably boost my pods up thanks for the link! my 6-line died today in teh QT tank (upping the SG from a hypo 6wk ICH treatment) so he won't decimate the low pod levels i guess.

it should to smooth...guess i will know tomorrow!!

thanks
Lunchbucket

 

[Travis]

Lunch, did you bring the salinity up to normal in the quarantine tank yet? If so, you can just toss them in there during the treatment.

 

[Maxx]

Eric,
Good to see you here brother! Sorry to hear about the loss of the 6 line....
How is the Kole? Hopefully you're able to get bugs on the first dose...
Let us know how things work out.

Nick

 

[Lunchbucket]

Travis - SG is NOT normal yet...and i can't get the emeralds or the shrimp...too quick and too smart for my trap. i might grab them if they are hurt during the treatment and put them in a bucket of clean SW to try to save them!!

maxx - yeah good to see you to. the 6-line was struggling the whole QT treatment time. not sure why he died....stuff happens i guess. just sucks he died RIGHT before i was about to get ready to put him in the tank

off to put my dose in 2:22pm CST. the skimmers air line is submerged in teh water and all carbon is removed

wish me luck. i have to work till 6:30pm and won't do the water change till about 9pm or so

Lunchbucket

 

[Hooked]

I did a second treatment and saw a couple more in the slime coming off of 2 different corals. I still have pods although definitely not as many. I cleaned out my prop tank this weekend and found a lot of healthy "podzillas" in it.

I know a guy locally that only did one treatment and they came back.

HTH

 

[Lunchbucket]

well 7:00pm about 4.5hrs later...i see ONE bug left on the infested coral. i have about 2.5hrs left of the treatment. everything else looks normal. the cleaner shrimp looks ok

Lunchbucket

 

[CarlaW]

Hey Lunchie, glad to see you here!! Good luck on your treatment and keep on updating us.

 

[racenrich]

i did the same as Lunch bucket, joined to say hello and make a few comments...
Hello

My observations on the treatment i did on my heavy SPS 55g.

I'm not sure how i got these little critters, but i will tell you they sure did take a toll on my arco, millies and staghorns.....all of these corals were effected.....monti, portis, tenious were not effected.
Corals that were effected all showed signs of bleaching on there bottoms, no polyps extension at all and really looked bad. i waited for almost a month before i decided to treat the tank, i was leary at first as well about putting dog meds in my REEF TANK!

i followed the Dustin, thanks dustin, treatment of 3 doses. The only thing i did different was i did three doses within 2 weeks.

Its been almost 8 weeks now and i will say that only within the last week or so, did i really see an inprovment in my polyp extension....dont get me wrong, i did get some, but not like i did prior to treatment. Now everything has been looking great.

Livestock i lost with treatment:
2 emeralds crabs
1 cleaner shirmp
5 arco crabs and a few hermits that i missed upon removing from tank.

Livestock that lived:
blood shrimp
coral bandit shrimp


Hopefully this will help someone down the line.
This is a great thread, im glad i found it!

Rich K.

 

[NaH2O]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers, Rich!

I find it interesting that your millis also had the bugs, as most say the bugs do not get on millis. Someone else posted the same earlier in the thread - had milles effected.

I'm glad you are starting to see an improvement in your corals. After Hooked/Katrina did her treatment, she didn't notice the awesome polyp extension that some post about following treatment. Hopefully, her corals will also show more improvement in the next few weeks.

 

[Travis]

Just thought I would share my experience so far.

My system has been running for about 7 months now. Every single coral that went into the tank was first treated for a minimum of 12 hours at 4x the recommended dosage. This kept me bug free. However, I recently (about 6 weeks ago) acquired a single 1" A. millipora frag from a buddy and he told me that it came from a "bug free" tank. I decided to go ahead and not treat the frag as 1) it supposedly came from a "bug free" tank and 2) it was a milli, which everyone always said that the bugs don't go on milli's. Well, what a mistake. It is now 6 or so weeks later and I now have red bugs on about 3/4 of my acros. That is a total of about 45 affected acros. I will treat my tank as soon as I can get some salt for the many water changes that will need to be done. Water changes aren't cheap when a 25% water change is 100 gallons. And a triple treatment requires 6 25% water changes. Anyways, I will never take another reefer's word for their frags being bug free again. I will now treat every single coral that goes into the tank.

I can also now confirm that, yes, the red bugs do go on millis. I still can't see them on the milli that brough them in but that is because this milli is so hairy you can't really even see the tissue through the waving polyps. Also, it is only a 1" frag and is at the back of a 30" deep tank so it would be hard to see the bugs on it even if the polyps weren't out. However, over the past week I have noticed some of the polyps are staying retracted on another milli frag I have in the tank. It is a 1" frag of the Aquarium City red milli. This has never happened in the 5 months I've had this frag so a red flag went up right away. The frag is at the front of the tank so it is easier to find anything on it. I spent a good 5 minutes staring at the frag tonight where the polyps were retracted and sure enough, I found about 5 bugs roaming around in one 1/4 cm area. So I can definitely say now that the bugs DO go on millis. I will try to get some pics of it but I can't make any promises as my camera isn't the best and neither are my photo taking skills.

 

[Travis]

Sorry all but this is the best I could do after taking over 60 pics.

This pic shows the Aquarium City red milli as it looks in my tank today. It is not the best pic but you can kind of see the area of the coral that has started to not extend its polyps as much as usual over the past week. I circled the area to help point it out.

 

[Travis]

I couldn't get any pics to show the red bugs with the polyps out so I had to disturb the water around the frag to get it to retract its polyps. I was able to get the pics to at least show a few "specs" where the bugs are this way. The funny thing is, is that after disturbing the coral most of the bugs hung around down near the base but it was mostly the ones on the vertical part that showed up in the pic. I added some arrows to help point out the bugs. They just looks like specs in the picture but believe me, they are the bugs. I only wish I had a better camera and better photography abilities to get a clearer picture for you all.