Red Bugs - Inevitable?

[Maxx]

Mike,
I did two doses only. One at 5 pm on Friday afternoon, ran carbon at the 6 hour point did a water change, and waited a full 36 hours to do a 2nd dose. Same follow up..water change, carbon etc.....I havent seen them since.

Nick

 

[mojoreef]

Ok round one down, did the dosage and then let it ride for 7 hours, then a 200 gallon water change. I did notice alot of polyp stimulation from about the half way point to the wc, I would imagine that would have to do with the BEEFY flavor, lol. I see a few dead acro crabs and some that are still kicking. 2 shrimp died and then we eaten by the surviving 7.

Anyway that about it for right now

Mike

 

[Illusion]

Mike,

I am supprised that it took you this long to treat the tank... I thought that you might have been one of the first few...

FWIW I have only ever done 2 treatments... Did the 2 treatments once.. Never saw any bugs again until... Whoops thought I was safe.. Added an Acro and got the bugs again lol...

Treated again twice have I have yet to see a bug.. Havent added anything new since...

I know Weast treated over a year ago and after hearing his success I followed a few days later in my 55g tank... havent ever looked back since..

James

 

[mojoreef]

James I only had 2 frags put in my tank in the last 2 years so I thought I was safe. Also I cant see the damm things, even with the magnifing glass I bought, lol. And to be honest I want to see some evidence of them causing actual harm.


Mike

 

[Illusion]

Ahh I see... I never noticed any Direct harm other than loss of color... Once the bugs were gone the color came back Full force and everything looked great... growth seemed to improve a bit... But like you I figured why treat until I know for sure... Then just said forget it.. what do I have to loose and treated...

James

 

[NaH2O]

James I only had 2 frags put in my tank in the last 2 years so I thought I was safe. Also I cant see the damm things, even with the magnifing glass I bought, lol. And to be honest I want to see some evidence of them causing actual harm.


Mike

What about the video that Eric Borneman submitted with the bug's head in the coral tissue?

 

[mojoreef]

Yea Nikki that was the evidence I wanted to see, thus????? lol


Mike

 

[MtnDewMan]

I have red bugs

 

[fishermann]

These things do do damage, there is no doubt in my mind about it. I lost a blue tort and a couple others before I figured out I had the bugs. I had acros that were STNing or bleaching, which ever. Some were bleaching up from the bottom, some were bleaching randomly along there branches. I looked and there were bugs all over these corals. This happened rite after MynDewMan lost his corals, and I thought it was something else going in the tank, although I couldn't figure out what because I hadn't had temp problems or any of the other things Chuck had thought might have caused his problems.

Anyway I just happen to run across an article on the bugs and looked and I was loaded with them. I treated one time and wah la the bleaching quit and the acros were polyping out again and in time they healed and grew again. I did nothing else other then treat for the bugs and all was fine, except I lost some nice blue acro's before I discovered the bugs article.

Also I believe you can get them by other means then just new acro's. I had been bug free for nearly a year and when I set up my 230 I put all the LR from my 75 and my 60 along with the corals and fish, had it set up for 3 mo's and I added a clam and didn't quarantine it. About 2 mos. later I started having the samething happen again and looked and I had red bugs on the acros again. This was like 4 weeks ago, I treated one time again and so far they are gone. I do believe you can get them from things in a tank that has red bugs other then just the acros for what it is worth.

 

[NaH2O]

Yea Nikki that was the evidence I wanted to see, thus????? lol


Mike

LOL - sorry, I misunderstood.

Chuck - when did you notice them? Any thoughts on if you are going to treat or not?

fishermann - that is an interesting observation regarding the clam. I was surprised how little time the bugs stayed away from the coral when they were in my little container. I wonder how heavily infested the tank was where the clam came from.

 

[CarlaW]

I really think that we are going to have to start "Q tanking" everything. Live rock clams frags. From what I have read so far, anything can carry the eggs in!!! Good luck Mike, I myself am waiting for my Interceptor, ordered it Monday. So much for Red Bug free .
Mike, keep us updated, we'd appreciate it.

 

[NaH2O]

I just went back through the thread because I thought Eric Borneman posted a tidbit about the lifecycle. It appears there aren't eggs other places to worry about, as they are direct developers:

They are direct developers, so no larval stage to worry about (females have a brood pouch, I got nearly 20 from 5 adults after two weeks).

If Eric is still following this thread, perhaps he can give some thoughts about the possiblity of the bugs coming in on something other than an acro.

 

[MtnDewMan]

I spotted them last night when on the phone with Mike. I have not introduced anything new to the tank except that fish since my live rock change so I am convinced the bugs were there prior to the fish going into the tank. Soooo, I have probably had them for a while and just didn't know it. I plan on treating the tank as soon as I can find some medication to treat it with.

 

[dgasmd]

The red bugs, the invisible (clear) acro eating flatworms, and the monti eating nudibranchs are probably the most spread around coral predators we have seen in the hobby since the begining. It is the equivalent of syphylis and tuberculosis in Haiti. It is not a matter of whether you will get them but a matter of from who will you get them from.

I got the red bugs from a very large online coral retailer that now wants to be known as an aquacultured/ importer. To this day he denies it. That was about 6 months after people started to talk about them. By then, about 80-90% of the reefers in the DC and Baltimore area already had them. I suspect most, if not all, suppliers, online retailers, and wholesalers also had them at that point too. The worse part is not many people could recognize them. I went on with them without treatment, as it was not available yet, for about 1 year. Some corals looked very angry, some very discolored, and some could care less tat they were completely covered int hem. After moving to FL and getting my corals/frags froma friend in MD, I treated all corals. Not a trace left. Later, I re-acquire them and had to treat the big system for it. Not a cheap proposition as I spent close to $250 between the interceptor, carbon, water changes, and a new clean up crew.

If I am to add any more corals to my tank, I will dip them in a bucket with 20 times the recommended dose of interceptor for about 6 hours. I also no longer introduce corals that come attached to a rock. I am nw in the habit of throwing away the plug/rock they come in and re-glue them to virgin rock I have here. I have gotten too much nasty crap from plugs, especially the nasty algae that comes with those aquacultured plugs.

Sorry about the rant, just sharing my experience.

 

[fishermann]

Nikki The tank I found out did have red bugs, I was as surprised as you that I got them, that is the only thing I have added to my tank in about 1 1/2 yrs. and it never crossed my mine that I would get the bugs back.

As far as Erics observations go, I believe he is correct because I have only did one treatment the first time, wanting to see what happened, and I never saw them again until adding the clam. Another reason I tried only one treatment was to see if some of the crabs would survive only 1, and there were some that did, Unfortunantly the few that did got nailed the second time, so now I have none. Also it prettywell wipes out you pod populations.

Chuck If you need some interceptor, I would be glad to give you some, would be the least I could do for the help you gave me years ago when first starting to keep corals.

 

[reedman]

Nikki The tank I found out did have red bugs, I was as surprised as you that I got them, that is the only thing I have added to my tank in about 1 1/2 yrs. and it never crossed my mine that I would get the bugs back.

I think this is the reaction of most people. My belief is that most people had then to begin with but never noticed until it was brought out in the open to look for them.

I really wish there was a firm scientific foundation on the broad brush stroke statement that the "red bugs" are as detrimental as people are saying they are. I know there is the infamous video of a red bug drilling into a coral, but really, what exactly does that mean? There are commenseral crabs that pick at corals. Are they bad??? No. There are fish that appear to be biting other fish when they are actually picking parisites off of them. I don't doubt that these bugs are not good. I just haven't seen the negative effects (and I've had them for probably 9 months that I know of).

Can anyone cite some scientific information on these? Maybe a scientific name for the little bugs? A research paper? Perhaps an observation in the wild? I just have a hard time killing life in my tank without a firm foundation behind the negative claims.

Good luck to you all that are treating. I suspect that I will join you at some point.

 

[mojoreef]

I really wish there was a firm scientific foundation on the broad brush stroke statement that the "red bugs" are as detrimental as people are saying they are.

I am with you Reed but in all honesty arthropods are not really high on the priority list to have a scientific study done on them, no grant money thier. So I wouldnt hold your breathe to much on that. What we must go by is peoples experences, mixed with visual signs and habits of the bug.

I know there is the infamous video of a red bug drilling into a coral, but really, what exactly does that mean?

It means the bugs are tearing through the tissue (2 cell layers deep) to either eat it or extract something. Personally I would guess they are going after protiens (since that is a major form of thier matrix) and that would explain the loss of coloration. The video was the last peice I needed in order to make the jump.

There are commenseral crabs that pick at corals. Are they bad???

If it is the type of crab that eats the corals flesh then I would say thier bad and should be removed. Normal acro crabs will not do this.

There are fish that appear to be biting other fish when they are actually picking parisites off of them.

Good point, but sucking off or picking a parasite of the tissue is still not the same as drilling and tearing through the corals tissue.

For me I am REALLY not a fan of putting any kind of med in my tank, actually this might be the first time I have ever done it. In my tank I have seen certain corals (most deeper water stuff) that has not turned the color that it should be, two corals on opposite sides of the tank, one with out bugs looking good for color and another on the otherside with bugs looking pale. Regardless if a bug is tearing flesh it is stressing the coral, the coral then needs to expend energy to deal with that insteed of using its limited resources to do what it needs to do to be healthy


Mike

 

[Maxx]

Reedman,
I can understand your quandry...
I noticed I had redbugs maybe 2-3 months ago. With the level of infestation I had to have had them for a few weeks at least. The polyp extension of the affected corals was dramatically less. I even saw bleaching in areas of one of the most affected corals. After dosing the tank twice for the redbugs, all corals are looking healthy and polyp extension is back to what it used to be. You just might be lucky enough to have corals that arent as seriously affected by the redbugs as mine were. If you're not seeing anything negative yet....I would hold off treating for them. But I would consider lining up some interceptor just in case you decide to treat later.

Fishermann,
I have noticed a decline in my pod populations, but I still have them. I have seen both amphipods and copepods in my tank, and I've been seeing a lot of whole (meaning recently shed, not fragments of an eaten pod) pod exoskeletons floating in the current of my tank lately. I think some of them were able to make it, at least enough to rebuild my populations.

Nick

 

[fishermann]

Reed The clam was added about three months ago, which is what I am convinced was the source of the second infestation. As far as the first, it was only after coming across a thread that I looked for them. I can with complete confidence assure you they kill corals. I am no scienitist, I don't know what they are other then what I read on the treads, but I do know what goes on in my tank and I was losing corals and others were on the way out. I treated and things INSTANTLY started getting better and no more corals were lost, same experience the second time which was just four weeks ago. The first treatment was quite some time ago, going on 8 mos. or so and there were no neg. reactions in the tank other then the loss of some crabs and most of the pod population. The corals were doing great until I put that clam in and saw the same thing taking place 2 mos. later. A good way of seeing these things is to shine a flashlite on your acros through the glass and you well see them pretty planely.

 

[dgasmd]

I've also had similar experiences with the recovery of the corals. After treatment, they all seemed to perk up quite rapidly getting color back and good polyp extension.