red neck chiller

[ecobalance]

here's one you might see on the red green show one day. Atatch a long drinkingwater safe hose to a return pump or large power head ,either in your sump or tank.Next dig a big ole hole in your back yard and coil the hose [50 to 100 feet would be good]down in the hole and cover itt up.Remember keep both ends out and hook it to your tank with a ball valve and you have a bonified red neck chiller[duck tape need not be used]

 

[wingnut247]

ground loop

Not a bad Idea really... like a ground loop heat pump. Some sort of "heat sink" or radiator would be needed to efficiently transfer the heat in the sump. Have a pump to pump the heat out to the ground... but also a powerhead to "blow" water past the heat sink in the sump. Once built, it likely be very efficient. Water may not be th4e best fluid... salt water may be better if resources are limited. Hmmmmmmm My neck is getting red.

 

[plack]

I don't get it why would you need this "Some sort of "heat sink" or radiator would be needed to efficiently transfer the heat in the sump"?
I think he is just pumping the tanks water from the sump to the groung and back up into the sump mixing the cooled water with newer and letting the ground absorb the heat! I willm probably try this even though I have a large Airconditioner in the room . I Wonder how deep I can dig in my clay like backyard?

Paul

 

[RocketScientist]

This is a good idea and exactly like a ground loop. Now there are several things you'll want to take into consideration. Efficent heat transfer will occur when the water through the piping is in a laminar state (as apposed to turbulent) Also, you're going to need a pump that can accomodate the head loss associated with the lenght of tubing/piping. Thirdly and most importantly in order for this to work correctly you'll need to get the right depth on your hole. I believe fore most ground loops they dig at least 6 foot down. Also, each pipe needs to have at least one foot of dirt between each other in order to allow for the dispation of heat. Regarding the heat sink and secondary pump they are unnecessary. The key is to determine the amount of cooling load you need. Meaning what is the hottest temperature your house will obtain during the worst day in summer and how large your aquarium is. This will set both the voulme required to be cooled and the tempearture drop required. Overall this can be a very effective cooling method and a realitively cheap chiller. All you would need to buy would be a pump, poly tubing and some sweat labor to dig a hole and fill it. I know the necessary equations to run the calculations though I may need to ask a few more questions if your serious about this working.

 

[ecobalance]

yea

yea i was thinking he pump could be on a timmer thus giveing the water in he coiled hose in the ground ime to chill.than the heater in the tank would kick on if it got to cool.or you could just run it at a very slow volume per hour.

 

[jetaero]

You will have problems with anaerobic bacteria and lack of oxygen in the loop if it is left without flow though. Won't you?

-Josh-

 

[jsmkmavity]

you can control the cooling capacity by determining the correct amount of tubing in the ground. then get the proper flow rate. when all done you can check the temp difference between the outgoing and incoming water with a didital thermometer (delta T) and to fine tune you can adjust water flow and run time if necessary to provide a constant temp in the tank.

 

[RocketScientist]

If the aneorbic bacteria is a concern you can always plumb the return line into overflow line so that it goes through the refugium.

 

[harrscars]

If anybody wants to try it you can dig at my place. BE WARNED. The 500 pound rocks you find are yours to keep. Just finished digging my fish room under the house. About 50% rocks in the ground in the columbia basin. Ill pass on the dig.

Mike

 

[sarmo]

has anybody tried this? i am interested in trying. my system is about 520gallons. i was thinking of digging trenches in my crawl space under my house. i could T off my sump return and run a line to the crawl space and run as much tubing as needed. i was thinking about digging about a foot deep because it's always cool in the crawl space. my house temp rarely gets into the mid 90's and 2 small fans have always been able to keep the temp at 82 or less. i try to run between 79-82. the fans are just loud.
any thoughts on the length of hose needed?????? i was thinking of 3/4" because that is the size of the lines that T off the sump return. if needed i also have a gen-x pump i could plumb in to help push the water through.

thanks in advance

 

[RocketScientist]

http://www.geothermal-heat-pump-resource.org/

Try this web site it has some information. Otherwise I would highly advice some research on geothermal heat pumps.

So some real quick things to know.

The cooling capacity of this type of system is determined by the number of holes and the depth of holes.

Also, crawl spaces are not good places for this. Granted this space is "cooler" but it is relative. It definetly fluctuates just not as much as outside. Another reason this isn't a great place for it is that the crawl space is a trapped air volume. There are some passive vents but if you start dumping heat into the space the temperature will steadily rise to a point of equilibrium. As this happens your cooling capacity will decrease to nothing. Thirdly, a lot of these holes are going to be deep like 10' or so. Personally I wouldn't be hand digging these let alone digging that deep under my house. Also this system deals with a large water volume which if it failed and began leaking you really don't want that in your crawl space as it will cause mold, mildew, rot etc... None of which are good for resale value of your house, and inspectors check for that stuff too!

I'll post more later as it's late right now.

 

[sarmo]

thanks for the link. i was thinking the horiz. loop. the guy who answered the phone was busy but was able to answer a couple questions. first- he didn't feel that burying the pipe in my crawl space would raise the temp in the crawl space as it would be using the earth as the heat sink and not the air in the space. second- he said the depht that i would need was 6' to reach a stable 52degrees. he then went on to say that the calculation would require some adjustment of his normal program and since i wasn't a heating customer and he wanted to get out of the office, he didn't have time to do that. at least he was honest.
as far as failure, humidity, mold and the like, my crawl space routinely has moisture in it but the plastic on the ground protects my house from its effects. not to mention i live in a much much less humid part of the world than you do. (while i was in seattle for school i remember my pourch being green from the moss/mold that grew on it. it is not like that here.) even the passive air movement through the crawl space keeps the mold out.
my crawl space is 4-6' tall and that means i should only have to dig a foot or two to be at the same level as 6' down out side. then i would just replace the plastic and i shouldn't have a humidity problem even if a pipe fails. my big concern, if a pipe breaks, is the salinity drop as the 100 gallons of RO from my auto top off would fill my tank.
so i am left with either experimentation to figure out how much pipe i need or hopefully someone out there knows a formula to get me close.

 

[RocketScientist]

Good to hear that you were able to connect with someone who knows more about this. Perhaps you could ask that same guy to run the calculation it sounds like he might know. I've recently tried to wrap myself around the heat transfer and fluid dynamics equations but they are excaping me for the moment, too many years out of college and in the work place.

 

[returnofsid]

If you wanted to make this a permanent design, I don't think I'd use a water hose though...even the "potable" safe hoses will eventually start to decompose when buried under all that dirt. I'd suggest either Poly tubing or PVC piping. If you also put a layer of dirt between each "Wrap" in the tubing that's in the ground, it'll be a more efficient cooler. Also keep in mind that you'll need a pretty powerful pump, which will add heat. Keeping the pump external and getting the most energy efficient pump you can would help. LOL if you live in an area like me you'd better also make sure that you bury the piping deep enough so it doesn't freeze. In my area, that'd require at least 5' of dirt over it, safer to go 6'. You'd need to bury the pipe under the house BEFORE heading outside or it'd just freeze coming out of your home.

 

[jsmkmavity]

we use black polyethylene pipe for ground source systems and thats what is used for most potable water delivery systems also. you could also use pex tubing, which is also rated for direct burial but more expensive. 6 feet down is the right depth to get away from potential frost line and still have enough depth of heat sink to prevent frost clime from your heat sink in a heat pump system but not necessary if you are only rejecting heat like your trying to do.