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HI Oscapus. I'm sorry to hear of all the trouble :( Hang in THERE! I'm sufferring almost the same thing as you, except with my maroon clownfishes.

Too many of the fry are dying left and right, but I will keep on doing something different until something works. I think its great that you were able to keep yours alive. Breeding them is totally a different ballpark than keeping some alive.

I'm routin' for ya :) Now with luck...some of my maroons may survive, who knows... :eek:

- Elmo
 
Sorry to hear about your losses :( I had something that ripped through all my horses a couple of years ago. Since then, I (and others at syngnathid.org) have found that it's not a good idea to mix horses of different species or different sources even if they're all WC or CB. It looks like different species are definitely susceptible to different pathogens, so a horse that seems completely healthy could easily be carrying something that might wipe out other horses that it comes in contact with. It's also interesting that this applies in CB situations as well. CB horses from one system may be exposed to pathogens that other growout systems don't contain. I had CB erectus established in my tank and introduced more CB erectus from a different source and suddenly my original herd developed some sort of infection that wiped them all out in two weeks, but the new horses never showed any signs of problems. Sometimes you think that CB stock is safe but that's just not always the case. I definitely stick to one species from one source per tank now.

~ Steve
 
I wanted to update everybody on my unsuccessful battle against the bug that hit my seahorse tank. I have lost 13 of 18 seahorses, all farm-raised reidi. The survivors are a different, unknown species and include a mother and her three young that I successfully raised (dad died from internal gas bubble disease). I have one reidi hanging on sick after the bug hit 2 1/2 weeks ago, but I doubt he will survive. This experience has really reinforced the idea Wolfesbane expressed above about the danger of mixing batches of ponies together.

I converted the Eclipse 12 cheato nursery into a hospital tank, and first tried Formalin as an external anti-protozoan agent. I had read that this helps in raising fry. Two days later I added Kanomycin (anti-bacterial) to this. I also de-wormed everybody that was eating with Pipzine-soaked mysis. After 2 more days, I ran lots of carbon for several hours to remove everything, then added Metronidazole (Flagyl) external and internal anti-protozoan (Heximita). All through this I kept adding seahorses as they sickened. Nothing worked, only the mother lived through every treatment (she kept eating but slowly). Everything was quiet for about a week, and then the few remaining starting slowing down and dieing again.

Autopies with my nice microscope were inconclusive. One pony had a surprising amount of bacteria on the gills, especially for coming out of a Kanomycin-laden tank. Nothing visible in the gut track like worms, Heximita, etc... though. Another pony didn't have any bacteria on the gills, but had a green lesion on the liver that was just a mass of clean tissue, no pathogen visible (simple cancer?). I froze a few dead ones and will look later for the liver lesions, perhaps these are from the powerful medications I tried?

I have a theory from this and my poor success in raising fry: Hobbyist probably cannot raise fry due to unknown parasites, they keep scratching with their tails despite medication (Formalin). Only those few that develop resistance survive, and that is rare. Reidi seahorse farms such as in Sri Lanka have found a way to raise them in pretty much sterile environments, and can produce saleable sized teenagers for the market. However, these have never been exposed to any pathogens, and are susceptible once in hobbyists tanks, even living a year or so until exposed. Doesn't matter, they were sold and the farms will keep producing (sorta like cut flowers).

There must be some way to know if the seahorses we buy were somehow one of the lucky ones that survived a normal dieoff during the first few days of life. Those are the ones that have developed some resistance and will persist in our tanks. Otherwise we are just buying "bubble boys" doomed to die. The 3 teenagers I have successfully raised were from a batch of 44 fry(and 4 more subsequent unsuccessful batches), so are very special. They are happy as can be with everybody else dieing around them.
 
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Unbelievable. I get up for more coffee after posting above, and find white stringly fecal matter protruding from the very last reidi in the hospital tank. This is the most common symptom for Hexamita protozoan infection, and I had not seen it previously. I put some under the microscope, and whola! Little protozoans running around everywhere. They move so fast (I don't have any "ProtoSlo" that labs do) that I cannot adjust the focus and contrast fast enough to confirm flagella (tails), they seem to be cilliates only. But otherwise they sure look like the pictures of Hexamita on the internet. Regardless, the enemy is in sight! I froze the slide to slow the suckers down to confirm flagella, or proceed with species identification. They sure are running around fast in the presence of Metronidazole (Flagyl) though. Perhaps my medication procedure was correct, just that I bought some old out-of-date medication? There was no expiration date on the package.
 
Hi Oscapus. Any recommendations on where to acquire seahorses for the purposes of breeding?

I'd like to give it a shot.

Thanks,
Elmo
 
I bought most of mine from a now defunct internet store. However, Blue Sierra in Issaquah WA had several black reidi for sale at $59.99 last weekend. Marine Depot Live has some as well but beware, they withhold shipment without calling you leaving you waiting for a delivery that doesn't happen, all after taking the day off from work. You might be able to successfully get some from them but I cannot recommend them.
 
I'd rather get them online rather than Blue Sierra. God knows how they acclimate.

I'll have a look around the online places.

Thanks,
Elmo
 
I just did a major cleaning of my tank today, and I feel kinda dumb. I ended up sucking out half of my CarribSea substrate from the back half of the tank, behind the rock where it is hard to get to. It was full of black organics and as Lewis and Clark would say, "contained an odor most foul". This was obviously the low oxygen high organic environment I read that Hexamita thrive in. That is where the pods were too, so the seahorses hung out there, in close proximity to their poop as well. The Hexamita outbreak was probably long overdue. The momma seahorse vigorously ate some mysis after the cleaning so things are already improving. Over time, I will suck out the remaining substrate and go bare bottom. That was how I run my other reef tanks, but wanted substrate in this tank for the Nassarius snails. I've learned a lot, and after a bit I will restock with seahorses, but probably not Brazilian.
 
Hey Elmo,

With your clown experience, I wouldn't be surprised if you had success with Reidi. However, as a starter horse for breeding, I'd go with Erectus. The best Erectus stock, IMO, comes from Oceanrider.com. They're a bit pricey, but I've never seen any other source that produces animals of their size and breeding capacity. I have a friend who's on her F3 generation from Oceanrider horses, her success rate is phenomenal and she usually has some horses available too. I can put you in touch with her, if you're interested.

~ Steve
 
If you want to breed seahorses of any kind, I would avoid buying anything at all from Ocean Rider. They apparently sell a fine product, but claim legal rights to any offspring, even threatening to prosecute anybody selling or trading the offspring. Perhaps that is difficult to enforce, I don't know. Anyway, I would not want to get into a position later having to prove that my offspring for sale were from one of my other seahorses etc....I just wouldn't mess with them. See the Policies section on their website.
 
Yeah I won't deal with Oceanrider. Just a marketing ploy naming all those horses.

I'll see what I can come up with.

- Elmo
 
I would like to be put in touch with the lady with the F3 oceanrider seahorses. If she is not selling them as such or calling them mustangs and pixie ponies and all that hooey then it should be fine. If not my dad's a patent lawyer semi retired with nothing better to do. So there!

I know plant propagation without a license is illegal if stated on the tag... they are getting intellectual property rights on far too many things these days. What your friend should call them is "H erectus domestic bred" or whatever species they are and leave the distant DNA source out of it along with the cheesy name. Then I guess if she was to contact me off list and I wasn't told they were genetically Ocean Rider stock it would be fine.
Right?

I think the deal is the name though. Not using the name is critical. Also in trademarks if the company is not marketing in your area you can market in your area using their TM... though in the US with the internet market area is moot. In an animal that changes color and appendages with husbandry visual identification should be near impossible, DNA tracing would work but only if there is a lab that codes the genome right? That is so stupid.

Now I really want them. I will put them on the top of the rack in the fishroom with the illegally propagated orchids and New Guinea impatiens. And play bootleg MP3's while I clean their tank!
Kate
 
Ocean Rider Mustangs®, Sunbursts®, Fire Reds®, Gigantes®, Brazileros®,Mo'olios® Pintos®, and Pixies® are proprietary lines that are a registered trade mark ® Offspring cannot be sold or traded. There are NO exceptions to this policy.Violatoers will be prosecuted. If the item(s) you order are out of stock, or if there is a reserve waiting list we will notify you.
 
This sort of removes the incentive to buy doesn't it? Or at least devalues the stock. I know many many people who do want seahorses with no intention to breed, I met them working at the LFS and they all know about OR but are afraid to order because they are afraid the animals will die in shipping. If OR wanted to wholesale they would meet the market at the LFS but it seems like people online are more often than not interested in breeding and selling. I don't work for that fish store but I know all the fish stores pay a lot of money for domestic bred seahorses from other breeders and would love to hear from you if you are willing to go in on a bulk discount...
Personally I guess I will go back to my original plan of only buying NON OR stock.
I suppose any court case would have to be settled in Hawaii and I can't afford to stay there for the duration of the trial and also hire a lawyer.
Kate
 
Well since we're using this thread as a Horse forum: Im starting a dwarf tank and wondering if anyone here breeds them?
 
Hey, that's the part of the movie where I came in! :)

I think we now have at least 2, maybe 3 people looking for dwarf seahorses. I have seen some online dealers which have a decent reputation but they always do something to scare me off like offer to sell them with 1/2 gallon "aquariums" (torture chambers) or they sell puffers and have a picture of one puffed up outside water on a guy's hand and him poking it to make it puff more... boycotted both those sites and ran out of leads.

Ideas? We can do a combo order...

I have to be able to share the offspring so no patented stock. I always give my first babies away to a friend for safe backup in case of issues. Whether it is an RBTA or a rare killifish I like my insurance plan. Can't do that with a patent in place. Also the little buggers are quite fecund, imagine being overrun is a possibility...

Thanks,
Kate
 
One of the sites i've been eying is the one that sells the 1/2g. I didnt even notice that until you pointed it out.

The other site i've looked at is: http://www.floridacollector.com/ Same prices but looks alot more like its run as a hobby. I'd love to be in on a group buy. Im looking for 3-4 pairs for a 5 gal nano i've had cycling for almost 3 months now. Im starting to get tired of watching the snails clean the glass.
 
Just got in 4 large and beautiful H. comes (Tigertails), my lawnmover blenny has got to go! He keeps mouthing the newcomers. Now that I see these new adults, I can confirm that the mother (RIP) of my 3 newly-raised teenagers was definately a H. comes, not sure what species the father was though. So far, at the first feeding, they ignore the frozen mysis shrimp, but then again they are freaked out from shipping. I'll keep you posted though.
 
yes we need a forum for the seahorse i have 2 H Reidi one male one female out here In shelton wa had them for 2 years the breed well just have had reall succes with them after 30 days with the fry
 
Hi - I have a recommendation for anyone looking for larger live feeds, live sand, macroalgae and small shrimp for seahorses. George at www.seawaterexpress.com based in Nevada has a great set-up, and he always puts in a little extra. I know he is growing seahorses, I am not sure if he will be selling them in the future, but I just wanted to put this recommendation out there.

ladygator
(Adelaide from Essential Live Feeds forum at Reef Frontiers)
 
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