Something is not right in my tank

[shallowreef]

Okay, here it goes...

My one porkfish with the bruise is not all that visible during the day but almost looks black at night. Its about the size of a small paperclip (1") No meesed up scales at all. Eats like a pig.

They were housed with a couple of lionfish if i remeber correctly for about a week and a half. I was waiting for some popped scales to heal.

I took the water sample after the lights were on for about 45mins.

I am going to buffer the tank tonight and my RO reserve as well.

 

[steve-s]

No meesed up scales at all. I was waiting for some popped scales to heal.

Porkfish or Lionfish?

I took the water sample after the lights were on for about 45mins.

I am going to buffer the tank tonight and my RO reserve as well.

Be carfeul on using the buffer. You wan't slow increases, nothing dramatic or it will just add to the problem. Kalk is really a better solution.

What about the saltmix?

 

[bobt2]

read his 1st post, he has corals in the tank! i still say to raise the sg to normal

 

[shallowreef]

My corals are fine though at this salt level.

Steve,

the porkfish were housed at the LFS for about 2 weeks in a atank with a few lionfish. the reason they were in there so long was because i was waiting to for some popped scales to heal. None of my fish have any popped scales now.

Also i have not tested my pH from my salt. I use Oceanic if that helps at all.

 

[Ed Hahn]

Here are some things that are putting flags up. Your salinity level compared to the level of the LFS where you bought fish. Sometimes when people buy fish from LFS. The fish is healthy, eating great, breathing properly. The fish is bagged up, stressed by travel and time in bag. The bag is opened, The gas exchange happens because the CO2 escapes so rapidly.
The ph changes rapidly burning the fishes gill plates. The fish is released into the tank with out drip acclimation or checking salinity, PH or temperture.
I am not saying you do this. But I feel this is overlooked quite frequently.
The fish dies a few days later due to Post Tramatic Stress sydrome. This is the where the LFS gets a bad name. But its not the LFS fault, its how the fish is transported/time can sometimes kill the fish.
That is my guess on what is happening to you. I am sorry for your loss.

 

[shallowreef]

First off Ed i see what your saying and i agree with your methods of acclimation BUT, I have had these fish for more than a month. I didn't lose these fish in the first couple of days. If that was the case i wouldn't have posted a thread stating i have a problem. Because i would have been able to know right then and ther what my main cause would have been.

Second, i never said that my LFS was at fault for any of this. In fact i never pointed the finger at anyone.

Third where do you get off telling me that i most likely killed my fish due to poor acclimation? You don't even know how i acclimate my fish? Heck you didn't even ask me how i acclimate you just went for the kill. I think before you throw in your two cents on a subject you should ask a couple of questions to back up your claim. Perhaps you wouldn't recieve a response such as this.

 

[dnjan]

Please re-read Ed's post. He is not accusing you of poor acclimation - rather he is stating general information. Ed is probably the last person who would point a finger directly at somebody. He says it is a guess about what happened to you, but I sure wouldn't consider that an accusation. He was just trying to shed some light on an unfortunate occurrance.

 

[DonW]

Please re-read Ed's post. He is not accusing you of poor acclimation - rather he is stating general information. Ed is probably the last person who would point a finger directly at somebody. He says it is a guess about what happened to you, but I sure wouldn't consider that an accusation. He was just trying to shed some light on an unfortunate occurrance.

Definatly. You could outright poisen them and Ed would not point a finger purposely.

Don

 

[shallowreef]

This is the where the LFS gets a bad name. But its not the LFS fault, its your methods that kill the fish.

I re-read it before i posted and i seem to read the same thing the same time so does someone want to explain?

 

[DonW]

I am not saying you do this.

I guess If you dont know Ed personally you wont get it.

Don

 

[steve-s]

How about we move on from that part of the thread, lets not dwell!! Thank folks.

shallowreef,

Two things have me concerned here.

Oceanic salt is probably about the worst you can get in terms of chemistry. An extremely low low alkalinity can lead to potential wild drops in pH. With a heavier bioload (?), it can easily draw it down further. In all honesty, a higher salinity would benefit in terms of sustainable chemistry.

Without anyone elses imput in the matter (I will delete it otherwise!!), what is your reasoning for the 1.020 SG level?

Second, the fish that "healed" at the LFS.....

the porkfish were housed at the LFS for about 2 weeks in a atank with a few lionfish. the reason they were in there so long was because i was waiting to for some popped scales to heal. None of my fish have any popped scales now.

I still don't know if you are talking about the pork or the lion and if you purchased one that was previously affected even though "healed" now.
The issue there is if the problem abated on it's own, it does not mean it was actually treated and eradicated.

 

[Ed Hahn]

Shallowreef,
I just read my own post. I worded it wrong. I am sorry.
Don and Don,
Thank you for supporting me. I know what I am thinking but do not word it right. I guess I am working too many hours. Some where is the back of my head is a very well explained lesson from Terry B. I just wish I could remember it and learn to talk English politely. People can not see my face, But I always want to help if possilble. It makes me feel better about myself If I do. Sorry for confusion I will edit my post before.
Again, truely sorry Shallowreef.
sincerely,
Ed

 

[shallowreef]

Its cool Ed i was having a bad day yesterday and i snapped sorry it had to be you.

Thanks

Steve,

I was told that with the amount of fish i have i should keep my salinity at a lower level. .020-.022.

 

[shallowreef]

Second, the fish that "healed" at the LFS......

The Porkfish

I still don't know if you are talking about the pork or the lion and if you purchased one that was previously affected even though "healed" now.
The issue there is if the problem abated on it's own, it does not mean it was actually treated and eradicated.

So do you think that it is infected now?

 

[steve-s]

I was told that with the amount of fish i have i should keep my salinity at a lower level. .020-.022.

It's really not low enough to be of benefit for what I'm guessing was a recommendation for bacterial/viral problems? With a high bioload usually comes not so good water quality. With corals in the tank, I would think maintaining good water quality is being looked after so in this case, your actually making it harder to maintain your tanks chemistry. One due to the reduced salinity and two due to the salt brand being used. Raising your salinity will not change the fish's health directly whatsoever but it can indirectly help with the chemistry.

The Porkfish
So do you think that it is infected now?

If it was not treated at the LFS properly and managed to heal, it is very possible. Vibrio/Uronema are usually quite deadly when allowed to proliferate.

I would really urge a large QT and a period with some PARAguard for all your fish. There's no way to be sure this is the problem or not. You can wait and see what fixing the chemistry does (which you really need to do) or treat while your doing that at the same time.

 

[shallowreef]

Well, I went i and had my water tested and i believe that the low pH is a big problem for my fish oh and also my kalk was very low as well. I am going to raise these up and see where that gets me. once that is good i am going to continue to troubleshoot from there. Hopefully by doing this i can check off these problems one by one and hopefully eliminate whatever is killing my fish. My LFS believes and so do i that the low pH and Alk are the two main culprits right now.

As for the porkfish. I am not so worried anymore about that spot. It is not gettinga ny worse or better and i do see it on the other porkfish. Plus my LFS got some in and they all have the same mark so i am guessing it when it gets mad, or aggressive, or anything of that matter it gets darker. So unless i see signs of it getting worse i am letting it go for now. I still am going to keep an eye on it though.

Now the salt, What brand of salt is going to be better for me? I am almost out of salt so i will need to buy some more salt soon.

Thanks

 

[steve-s]

True, at this point pH can just as easily explain the deaths as anything but I am still concerned about the possibility of Vibrio etal so keep an eye out for it. Also be sure you do not "jump" the pH/alk quickly. Allow it to adjust upwards over a few days at least.

What have you opted for in terms of a buffer? Kalk I hope?

For the salt, you need something with a better alkalinity out of the pail. Oceanic is dismal in that regard and so is Kent (made by the same company I think). Your best option would be Instant ocean in that regard. What is easily available at your LFS?

 

[shallowreef]

What is Vibrio Etal? Do you have a picture of it so i can see what it looks like?


I am dosing kalk at night and am buffering the water top off.

My main LFS that i go to offers Oceanic, Another one offers Tropic Marine, and the local Petco has IO.

 

[steve-s]

Etal (actually Et al) is just a term that means "and others".

Vibrio infections have the potential to be a rather nasty issue in a closed system.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA036

 

[shallowreef]

Okay well unless my pH is still low which i doubt i have a disease in my tank. I just lost another porkfish yeterday. and i noticed that my engineer goby looks like it has a ton of white bumps on it, and one of my Clarkis clowns looks like it has dust all over its face. I just noticed this last night. What am i dealing with here?