Tank crash questions

[Barbie]

I have a new customer with a 30 gallon tank. It had 12 pounds of live rock, a bakpak skimmer, and a heavy fish load, with infrequent water changes. On Sunday, I sold her 21 pounds of well cured live rock and they drove it directly home to add to the tank. The tank had been up for 4 years.

Her nitrates tested over 200ppm, but the alkalinity was still over 7.8, and her pH was solidly above 8.0. I recommended a 5 gallon change with premixed saltwater and to repeat that every day for the week to try to get the nitrates down without stressing the inhabitants too badly, since they were used to the conditions

The tank has low level lighting and they had been sold what appears to be a long tentacle anemone. The next morning, they woke up to their anemone inside out and their entire tank full of fish dead. I am trying to work backwards to figure out if there's something I could have missed in trying to get the tank cleaned up and out of danger. I had recommended that they take the anemone back to the place they purchased it, but obviously they didn't have time to. They were told that the live rock crashed the tank by another store, but this rock is well cured and I've sold more than 300 pounds of it to people with established systems with no issues at all.

Anyone have any ideas? They're going to bring me some water to test, but I haven't seen it yet to fill in those details.

Barbie

 

[mojoreef]

Well its a tough one. Perhaps they stirred up the sand when putting in the LR?? But that would be my first guess with out seeing it or knowing what it looks like now and before??

Mojo

 

[fishoutofwater]

I am betting they rearranged all there rock to allow the new rock in the tank thus causing the crash. I know adding rock is like a puzzle and never just gets dropped in. Plus the poor maintenance habits contributed to the huge crash. I am sure it wasn't the new rock that did the damage. This was a disaster waiting to happen. Just my opinion. Good luck

 

[Scooterman]

They can point fingers everywhere but If they kept that much of a load and didn't do much to help the tank, then I'd think they should look in a mirror. Ok, I know that is harsh and you can't do that but truth be told. The additional LR could of taken a bad situation and made it worse by nature of the bacteria living on the rock itself, they saw all this food and decided to pig out! Think about it, the bad situation and a rock teaming full of good solid life, also the anemone with the sand stirring like Mike suggested could of cause it. To me it was several factors and the timing was bad, I think bad conditions called for major changes as in water changes and cleaning and good husbandry to follow.
OK, that was my Opinion, it wasn't pleasing I know but with so much unknowns what else could it be? The question is now who do they believe, You or the other place? What can you do to help? Will they ever come back (probably sooner or later)?

 

[returnofsid]

Barbie, I know exactly what rock you are talking about and I know it was very healthy and well established.

It's tough when you end up helping people, who have already been lead down a bad path, by someone else. Then, they expect you to 'magically' fix everything.

My bet would be that their tank was a disaster waiting to happen. The combination of a drastically under maintained tank, along with the stress always associated with re-aquascaping, was probably too much. They could have stirred up all kinds of nasties, that were dormant, in the sand bed, releasing lots of crud. I would guess the anemone was already very stressed and on the verge. The most recent changes may have put the anemone over the edge. When the anemone stressed, it likely released lots of toxic chemicals into the water column, dooming the rest of the tank inhabitants.

As you know, sometimes you can't tell anyone anything. You've always been very good at explaining things, in a common sense manner. But, there's always going to be times when something bad happens, to a customer, that's out of your control. When it does happen, those customers are always going to look to someone to blame. Obviously, they don't want to blame themselves. So, if someone gives them an "out," someone else to blame, the customer is going to jump on that.

If at all possible, encourage this customer to join Reef Frontiers. Along with your help, we can help them to start over, on the right track.

 

[Faciosity]

Well its a tough one. Perhaps they stirred up the sand when putting in the LR?? But that would be my first guess with out seeing it or knowing what it looks like now and before??

Mojo

I strongly agree, and with what Michael said also. This tank was doomed at it's current state, and they should take this as a lesson learned and start over the right way. Sounds like they were trusting somebody that didn't know what they were talking about, rather than researching for themselves.

 

[Barbie]

I already encouraged them to join here. I had done it before I ever sold them anything for their tank. I DID show her how to use a gravel siphon to clean the sand but the sand bed doesn't look more than an inch deep in the iphone picture I looked at. She is upset, but not mad at me. I feel awful, to be honest. I just wanted to help them get it all in shape and healthy, not risk everything. The tank doesn't have corals, and only a dragon wrasse and pistol shrimp lived through the crash. I sent them home with a big bag of chaeto to put in the tank. I figured it would at least pull some nutrient and they don't ever intend to upgrade the lighting and do coral. I also checked and they had just changed the filter cartridges on the hang on back filter (I hadn't realized there was one and yes, I'll have them take it off, but I'm pretty sure I've done all the damage I can handle this week!)

I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed some obvious step or anything. I've cleaned up a few really abused tanks over the years and I've never had this happen before. Thank you guys .

Barbie

 

[CarlaW]

Barbie, I agree with a few of the above that this was a disaster just waiting to happen. I personally think that the anemone had alot to do with it, and never should have been in there to begin with. You did what you thought was right, and had the best intentions, you always have, there is no need to kick yourself anymore lady. I hope they take this experience, and use it to their best. If they listen to you and follow your advice in the next few weeks, they should be alright. I would also have them add at least 1-2 inches of sand in there, it seems to be all or nuthin with a sand bed, you either have one, or you don't.
I don't know how much research they have done, but I bet you ten to one that they may be doing a little more now, and that is a good thing.

 

[Airphotog]

I hate to hear about tank crashes. You seem to have done the best for them. The lack of tank maintenace was most likely the cause with the added load. I would suggest to them that if they want an anemone to upgrade their lighting. I have an 11 tall with an rbta and he was not real happy. I have some portable 24" 14 watt t5s and put two over the tank and it made a huge difference. Now you need to get them on here so they can learn hopefully not by more mistakes.

 

[Markee]

Hi guys. My name is Markee. I am 14 and this is my tank. I appreciate all the concern and tips. I wasn't pointing fingers and we don't need to say negative things. I am fairly new to this hobby and I have learned from my mistake. I have 2 1/2 inches of sand and I don't know if that is good or bad, honestly, I dont know a lot and have much to learn. Also, when I added the LR I did move maybe two rocks and bairly stirred the sand at all. Hope you guys can help me some more in the future so I don't have something like this happen again. Thanks again.

-Markee

 

[mojoreef]

Hey Markee welcome aboard!! Dont worry about mistakes I know some very seasoned vets (myself included) that killed a tank either by mistake, or because of something that was not foreseen. So as long as you learn from it you will be a better hobbist.

They main thing you need to figure out is where is the nitrates coming from. My first guess was the sand as it is the most likely source of nitrates. It also could be the rock you added as their could have been a mass of sponge inside the rock (which no one would know about) that went off on you. The best way to find out is as always do some testing.

If the tank died and their is only a couple of things left then its a good idea to get a clean start, so let us know and we will do our best to walk you through it.

Mojo

 

[Barbie]

The rock they added was marshall island, well cured, and free of sponge. The nitrate reading was before the addition of the rock. There is a back filter and a CPR Bakpak that has the biobale in it. They plan to take that out, but I recommended not doing that until the tank stabilizes again.

Barbie

 

[mojoreef]

Barbie no rock is free of sponge, but if the nitrates were that high prior then it kind of answers the question. At that level it would not take much to send the tank into a spiral.

On the bacpac with biobale this is a source for nitrate also, as the combination of highly oxygenated water going over a surface area like that is designed for the creation of bacteria whos by biproduct is nitrate.

You can never be sure but my best guess is that the nitrates were pushing the limits prior. With the add of the rock it probibly added a tiny amount, but the move of the rock and the slight stir of the sand is probibly what sent it over the edge.

Whats done then is done, time to get that tank back on the healthy side.

Mojo

 

[Scooterman]

I agree, time to do some husbandry, big wc's and cleanings, start with that backpac, remove the biobail while you have nothing left in the tank, if that is the case. Siphon the gunk out, this would be a good learning start.

 

[Markee]

Thank you and that is what we will do. The tank is very boring now, but I will make sure I get this thing back on its feet before i start to add any new fish. I've had a very tough weekend. I lost my 4 year old clarkii clown (we've only had him less than 2 years), my 1 1/2 year old orange spot goby, my 6 month old dogface puffer and jawfish, and I lost my harlequin sweetlips that was in my other tank (biocube). All thats left is a pistol shrimp and a dragon wrasse. So you probably understand how stressed, sad, angry, and confused I am. Thanks again for your help and for being so kind. And thank you too Barbie for helping us through this.

-Markee

 

[Scooterman]

You'll bounce back Markee, If your only 14 and kept it this long then your doing something right.

 

[CarlaW]

Markee, welcome to RF!!!!!!

Scooter is right, I mean heck, I didn't kill any saltwater stuff until I was at least 40, you have an early start.........................................lol

You will bounce back, believe me, life is to short not to.

 

[NWDiver]

Hey Markee, welcome to Reef Frontiers!
Sorry you had to find your way here after such a bad experience, but I'm glad you are here now.
It can be really tough to start over, but you get the chance to set everything up the way you want to, using all the knowledge you have learned along the way.
I can say for sure that I would not do my next tank the way I have my tank now, I have learned a ton over the last year from the really smart folks that hang out here.
Talk with Barbie and see how she recommends you get a fresh start, come here and ask questions, and get the tank working properly.
I think it is really cool that you were interested enough to find your way here and see what people have to say.

-Todd

 

[Faciosity]

Welcome aboard, and I'm very sorry to hear about your misfortune. Keep up on your cleaning and maintainance, and you will turn it around in no time! There are a lot of us out here that feel for you, and will help in any way possible. Don't feel afraid to ask more questions along the way.

 

[Markee]

Hey Barbie, I wanted to ask you, what is your opinion on cowfish? I've always wanted one because they are sooo cute and funny to watch. I saw one at the store the other day and he was a little bigger than the end of my thumb almost bought him because he was so cute but I decided I would ask you about them first. What do you think?