Tank Is Crashing Please Help!!

[Ditchplains2]

Let me first say thank you to everyone who has been responding to my thread with any and all suggestions I truly appreciate all the help here.

Let me answer a few questions.

First:

Did I test for nitrates and Nitrites, amonia, etc...?

Yes all read zero, including the nitrite or atleast undectable by my salifert test and the redsea one.


Do I dose calc or alk?

Not indivdually, I do have a Tunze auto topoff with a Kalk stirrer, it has been running since day one and has never been a source of problems for me. It did not over dose.

Did I test calc? No DID I test for alk? yes was in acceptable range 8 to 10dkh.


Did the starfish cause this problem? Absolutely not!

I figured out the problem real quick when I setup my QT tank and placed my TUNZE stream in the rubbermaid container, to mix the water.

The day or two prior the Tunze Stream stopped working due to it sucking up sugar fine sand from my ssb and churning it into sludge which seized the properlly and armature. What I did was scrube and clean this thing with brillo and soft scrub. Now like a freaking jackass I didn't obviously clean it anywhere near enough. So right after mixing water in the new QT the water turned milky even after a day and 1/2 of mixing, and remained that way. While it turned milky white, guess what became ultra clear in less then 3hrs? My aquarium, it was the pump producing some toxin through heat and high speed rotation of the brillo residue and soft scrub that didnt get entirely cleaned off in the rinse.


With regards to things with family and spouse. I'm going to ignore those comments because there not really relavent or necessary we all have made many sacrifices in this hobby. We all have a new car parked in our living rooms in one form or another.

Scooteman, The GBTA is doing ok, I feed him last night he's hanging in there. 3 of my corals, have survived, my Hodag green monti, german blue polyped monti, and indigo monti, and fuzzy green stag, and partially hanging in there is my rosocoe coral. So all in all not too bad.

I'm going to say something that might seem really odd to a lot of people here, but I'm going to be redoing my tank from this crash. I'm buying new live rock and starting over with a fresh ssb, as well as adding some differing macro algaes. I feel a fresh start would make me sleep well, call it knee jerk or paranoia, but I feel some new live rock could also bring some added life to the aquairum that I don't have right now. I'm buying some fully cured live rock from aquairum arts, which is where i bought my rock 6 years ago, that very same rock is the rock I reseeded in this aquairum. My thinking is this will provide a stronger base for flora in the aqauirum.


I need some advice however, Im thinking vinegar is the way to go to cleant the Tunze Stream, or will boiling certain parts do this? Any suggestions guys?


oh btw I spoke to fellow reefer from LIRA ( long Island reefers assoc) whom I used to buy corals from years back and trade with, he felt that it probably was the cleaning agents in Tunze .

thank you everyone.
David

 

[MikeS]

Yeah, accidently adding a detergent to your tank will definatly have some bad effects, it's a good rule of thumb to never use a detergent of any kind on anything that is going into the tank...I'm glad you isolated the probable cause....cleaning it with vinager will probably do the job, I would rinse it really good, put it in a bucket of vinager and let it run for a day or two in there, and then rinse it again really good.

I guess I still don't see the logic of scrapping all your live rock and starting over. I can see replacing the ssb, cleaning all the equipment (without using any detergent of course) and changing out all the water...but if the water has cleared that quickly on it's own, I don't think you really need to replace the LR. Removing it and cleaning it would be a good idea, followed by a few good water changes, lots of flow, skimming and a lot of carbon, and some time, that should help remove any detergent that may have got trapped in the rock. Heck, I'd replace the tunze before I'd replace the rock. But ultimately it's your tank and your money, just thought I'd throw my .02$ in....

MikeS

 

[Scooterman]

I submerge all pumps or parts needing cleaning in Vinegar to clean them, never abrasives because the scuffing up of the plastics will collect more quicker & could even weaken it to the point of exposure which may not be a good thing. Glad your recovering & moving onward, sounds like a lesson & experience but not all was lost.

 

[james734]

Glad you got this all figured out. Vinegar or muriatic acid is good for cleaning equipment. I would fill up a sink or tub up with vinegar and turn it on an let it run for a while. This might take a couple times to get all the soap out of there.

As for cleaning agents etc. never clean anything in the aquarium with soap or household cleaning agents. Aways use plain water, water and vinegar or muriatic acid. (Note: pour the acid into the water and not the water into the acid).

Yes, Muriatic acid is safe, Do a search up here and you'll see others use it.

 

[billaweed]

Is completely re-setting up your tank necessary if the TUNZE was the problem?

could WC's and Carbon fix it at this point?

 

[Damsel13]

am I wrong or does this guy commute 4 hrs. a day?

 

[jnarowe]

wow, you cleaned your pump with brillo & softscrub? That's wild. I guess you won't do that again. Tough break for sure, and based on that info. I am afraid that dumping the rock, sand etc. is probably the best idea. You will never be able to get that clean IMO. I would soak all components in vinegar and water or even a very diluted muriatic acid and water. But muriatic acid can react badly with certain metals.

 

[Ditchplains2]

Could it get odder?

Hey guys, thanks for the postings and support.

Here's where it goes mental!

Ok so the tank started to get very clean sans the tunze, so I came home the tank must have run low pumping air into the aqaurium, after a long weekend of house hunting. ( got to get out of brooklyn)

Anyways, their was slime, from the remaining corals and anenmone, covering evrtyhing, so I clean my entire sump top to bottome, drained and refilled with clean water. ( dont worry no detergents this time.. duh lol)

So now tank is cloudy yet again, I cleaned skimmers and sump completly, but still cloudy. So maybe think its some stray voltage Im missing?


I know getting new LR sounds crazy but its my feeling that it will establish a much better set of flora in the aquairum.

Oh btw my entire 5lb ball of cheato crashed too, which was the cause of much of the slime too. So I removed it and that was the major reason for the cleanup.

So, basically Im going to go home and do a huge water change, and continue to do so for the next few days until new LR arrives on Thursday. I hope this will all clear up by then.

Im doing a big vinegar soak tonight on everything esp tunze pump, to see if that helps as well.

That's pretty much where I am at right now. my Mangroves did survive which was nice and 3 corals.

cheers
David

 

[Scooterman]

I was wondering about your cheato, why I asked if you could isolate your sump.

 

[Ditchplains2]

scooterman

hey sorry I missed that comment, it's hard keeping up, today was a small disaster the GBTA isnt dead but very weak, mouth is closed, but not eating yet, and he got caught on the pump twice so far, so now its off, amongst the millions problems lately Im happy to say my fish are doing ok. Thank god.

Oh I think someone asked if I commuted 4hrs a day, and YES I do! lol from LI to brooklyn and back each day. I'm laughing about it but crying inside boohoo, sucks.

Im going to do a large WC tonight, and vaccum out ssb, and that will be the start of the revamping, of the entire system. wish me luck.

David

 

[micki]

Wow... I agree with Jnarowe, I would get rid of both the sand a rock. As for the equipment, I think soft scrub has bleach in it? You might want to rinse it then dechlor then soak in vinegar. Maybe see if a fellow reefer or LFS could hold your fish and anything else that's left until you can get a new system set up.

 

[dhnguyen]

Yep I also think you'll need to get rid of the sand and rocks as well. I would get a QT setup ASAP for your remaining livestock while you redo your display.

 

[Scooterman]

hang in there David, your doing all you can, hopefully you get it figured out & back going in the right direction, I know It must be a lot of extra work.
I do disagree about throwing out your LR, I know It could be cleaned & reused but probably good to get some more & worry about that later, get your tank back first.

 

[jnarowe]

...I do disagree about throwing out your LR, I know It could be cleaned & reused ....

Based on what? Your previous experience with getting soft scrub contaminants to un-bond with reef rock?

Does anyone really think the risk is worth it?

 

[dhnguyen]

Better to start again with fresh LR IMO. Like stated above, the risk is really not worth it. You could have problems again with the tank later and not really know where the root causes stem from. Reef rocks do absorb just about everything that is in the water column and over time they will leach whatever they absorbed right back into the water column as well.

 

[Scooterman]

Yeah, accidently adding a detergent to your tank will definatly have some bad effects, it's a good rule of thumb to never use a detergent of any kind on anything that is going into the tank...I'm glad you isolated the probable cause....cleaning it with vinager will probably do the job, I would rinse it really good, put it in a bucket of vinager and let it run for a day or two in there, and then rinse it again really good.

I guess I still don't see the logic of scrapping all your live rock and starting over. I can see replacing the ssb, cleaning all the equipment (without using any detergent of course) and changing out all the water...but if the water has cleared that quickly on it's own, I don't think you really need to replace the LR. Removing it and cleaning it would be a good idea, followed by a few good water changes, lots of flow, skimming and a lot of carbon, and some time, that should help remove any detergent that may have got trapped in the rock. Heck, I'd replace the tunze before I'd replace the rock. But ultimately it's your tank and your money, just thought I'd throw my .02$ in....

MikeS

Basically as Mike says here, you can clean LR & It isn't like he contaminated it so bad that it had lots to absorb in the first place, he did rinse most of it off the Tunze. Last resort you could boil it & remove everything completely off it & just start all new. I wouldn't throw it away.

 

[dhnguyen]

Well on the grand scheme of things live rock is cheap to replace rather than dead livestock.

In the end it's the OP's tank and wallet so he will do whatever pleases him.

I personally wouldn't put those rocks back in my tank but that's just me I guess. But then I wouldn't have used Softscrub to clean my pumps either so I guess it's kinda all relative.

Here's the MSDS report of Softscrub
http://www2.prosarcorp.com/msds_frame.asp?site_id=196&msds_id=118635&lang=en

Does this look like something you want to risk having traces of in your tank?

 

[Scooterman]

It is in his tank as we speak & things are picking up & he is already getting new LR this week, so whats the argument here? I don't believe his LR is bad, prove me right/wrong here? We all have opinions, I don't believe his LR absorbed enough to be harmful, that is My opinion based on my experience, I've seen similar circumstances & things worked out well, may times over.

 

[jnarowe]

SOLUBILITY IN WATER: Complete.

 

[dhnguyen]

It would be difficult to prove the water absorption rate of reef rocks without a proper test lab and equipment but here's the closest thing I could think of of some tests done with limestone rocks, the closest thing to reef rocks.

http://www.ejge.com/2002/Ppr0220/Ppr0220.htm
"Assume that a pure limestone rock with an oven dry weight (W0) 161.31 g is immersed in water for 24 hours. Its saturated surface dried weight (W3) is 174.98 g..."

That's 13.87g of water absorbed there based on the above.

And we all know reef rocks tend to have a much higher porosity than regular limestone rocks so that absorption rate could be even higher.


EDIT--- Actually I read that wrong sorry. the water absorption rate is determined here:

Water Absorption (normal) = {(W3 - W1)/W0}*100 = {(174.98 - 101.82)/161.31}*100 = 8.47%

that's about 13.67g of water absorbed within a 24 hr period. So how much of this absorption is considered "safe" , who knows...