Treated for Red Bug yesterday.

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gbr

Broke
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
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Location
Poulsbo, WA
I know there have been a lot of posts about this but this one has pictures! :D

Quick question right of the bat. What is the current thought/trend in 2nd and 3rd doses. The procedure is 2 years old. Have people been successful with just one treatment?

~3:00pm - air to skimmer off, UV turned off, ozone turned off. First picture is prior to treatment. I mixed ½ (plus a hair) for an estimated 180g system. Pill was crushed with a spoon in a glass bowl. Pill was not very water soluble and was eventually poured into the system near the return with a few salt grain sized chunks left un-dissolved.

treatment0.jpg



~3:15pm – 15 minutes into treatment. Fish seem a little stressed. Cleaner shrimp seem woozy (these are large shrimp). Of the 6 or seven acro crabs I see, all are moving. I have no hermits to worry about.

treatment15.jpg



~3:30pm – 30 minutes into treatment. Fish doing better. Stress may have just been perceived. Acro crabs still moving. Cleaner shrimp are stationary but alert.

treatment30.jpg


~4:15pm – 75 minutes into treatment. One acro crab is twitching. The smallest of the clownfish is out in the current eating something. Obviously eating, darting back and forth in the current. Possibly dead or dying pods…maybe red bugs???
Coral sliming slightly.

treatment75.jpg



~4:30pm – 90 minutes into the treatment. Acro that was twitching is belly up. This crab was in an apparently uninfected coral directly below where the mixture was poured in. All other crabs and shrimp somewhat motionless but still fine.
Coral sliming more heavily.

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~5:30pm – 150 minutes into the treatment. Tank inhabitants as before. Coral sliming the bugs off. Bugs are getting almost gone. They are apparently dead and the coral is “removing” them by sliming in the area where they were.

treatment150.jpg



~6:00pm – 180 minutes into the treatment. Still only down the 1 acro crab. Mysis are nowhere to be found in the sump where they used to be plentiful. Amphipods are floating around and being eaten by all of the fish.

treatment180.jpg



~7:00pm – 240 minutes into the treatment. See a couple of bristle worms laying lifeless on the sand bed. Coral has slimed all visible bugs away. Slime has increased in the hour. Of the other 10 –12 infected corals, no visible bugs. Some are sliming, some are not.

treatment240.jpg



~8:00pm – 360 minutes into the treatment. End of the treatment. Only lost one acro crab that I can see, some bristle worms (probably more than I can see), all visible mysis and many, but not all amphipods. All equipment that was turned off is turned back on. Sump level raised above normal and skimmer is tweaked to skim very wet over night. 35 gallon water change performed. ~3 cups of carbon added in a media bag to the filter sock. (new sock, sock was removed for the treatment)

treatment360.jpg
 
Over the next few weeks I will be logging the health of two particular corals that were damaged by the bugs. The first, a frag that never fully polyps and has a whitish color near the bottom. The second used to be a 6” colony that was repeatedly trimmed down to the current 1” frag due to recession which I may be able to attribute to the bugs. It is very near death and may not turn but we will see in the next few weeks.

treatedfrag2.jpg

treatedfrag1.jpg
 
I like the sequenced pictures! Shows the direction of events...

I had heard most times you treat multiple times, across a week, to be sure you got everything... But it looks like you're bug free now!

-Josh-:cool:
 
Hey, good job of keeping track. I went thru this last summer, I did treat twice just to be on the safe side. If you can get by with one treatment, more power to you!!!!!
All your pods will come back, so don't fret to much. An injection of live sand from someone else's red bug free tank will give you a boost too. GOOD LUCK:D :D :D
 
I believe both of our LFS's still have the Ocean Pods available Travis. If you decide to go thru with the 2nd dosing, I would pick up one of the jars of Pods (possiblly 2???), to help repleanish... especially with your Mandarins.
 
Thanks for the replies. How will I know if I can get away with it? Probably best to just do a second treatment huh? I just got pretty lucky I thought only losing one acro crab and didn't want to lose the others on the next treatment. So wait a week and then treat again? Is that the time frame?

Any chance the Ocean Pods have bugs in them? Should I QT my pods. :lol:
 
I know most people say acrocrabs dont live long outside of the coral head, but isnt there some way to quarenteen the acrocrabs with a couple heads of coral from a clean system to save them? If you need a spot to stick the little crabbys, I will keep them (the best i can, dunno if they would live, dont know why they die when away, so its puzzleing to me) in some corals I have in a bug free system, and whenever you have reduced the level of the medicine/poison in the water you could stick them back in.
 
I would have loved to have saved the acro crabs. I just dont think I could get them out. All of the acros I have are fused to the rockwork and an acro crab will not come out of that coral in the tank to save his life...literally...:(

Thanks for the offer though.

My current plan is to not do the 2nd treatment based on loohunter's and other reports that they were successful with one. I will watch closely over the next month and at the first sign of another bug I will re-treat. No sense in the added stress to the tank inhabitants.
 
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consider calling it good with one treatment. if they come back you can do the treatment again. the stuff isn't all that hard to come by and it is very stressfull to the tank inhabitants. it has been several months since my treatment and no sign of the bugs.
 
Way to go Travis.

I personally would like to torch them under a magnifying glass. But your treatment was quicker!!

Take care buddy.
 
If I were you ;) I'd do a second treatment. The first and second treatments should be about 2 weeks apart.

Just my opinion, as always.

Best,
Ilham
 
tito martinez said:
A quick and probably stupid question:What did you use for the treatment was it something other than FLAT WORM EXIT?:?:
Thanks.
Tito,

The recommend treatment for the Red Bugs... is called "Interceptor", I believe. It is actually a medicine designed for use on Dogs... and has to be prescribed by a local Vet. I'm sure Travis can give you some more information about that when he gets on here.
 
What size and/or mg milbemycin oxime did you use? I wonder if something like vodka or another alcohol could increase the solubility of it without hindering its efficacy (and your tank). I have an invert medicine selective this week and hope to bring up the acro/red bug topic. I am looking forward to hearing opinions from the DVMs...

Take er easy
Scott T.
 
Tagging along for Scott's follow-up :)

Great pics showing the sequence of things! I'm looking forward to the follow-up photos. Hope things work out great for your corals.

Tito - you can read more about the treatment on this thread: Red Bugs - Inevitable?
 
Scott, I used ~1/2 of the large Interceptor pill. The pills are relatively hard and I used a razor blade to cut it. It cracked 'almost' in half and I used the slightly larger half. Each pill has 23mg of the active ingredient so I would estimate I dosed about 12mg. I had thought briefly of using something to help make the pill more soluble, but I didn't want to add anything that may change the way the active ingredient acts.

One thing to remember is that the pill is about 1 gram, meaning 98% of that pill is some dog friendly beefy "stuff". So I wonder if the active ingredient is soluble and some of the other filler is what is not disolving well. ??
 
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Just a verbal update on the corals. The one that was doing very badly is still doing very badly :cry: ...no real change, no polyps, barely alive. It has a brother coral that is the same species that was added to the tank later (don't have the scientific name here at work) that has shown more polyp extension than usual. All affected corals are showing more polyp extension but don't appear to have colored up much. I am also currently fighting a nitrate issue due to bad salt (?) so that may affect the corals as well.
 
tito martinez said:
scott is milbemycin oxime what LakeEd is refering to?? And if so Im also very interested in the dosege per gallon to use.
Thanks


Disclaimer: I am paraphrasing and sort of reading in between the lines here. So, by no means am I quoting, just passing along my interpretation of how he felt (I feel it is pretty accurate). That being said...

Yes, if he did in fact use interceptor, that is the active ingredient. I talked to Dr. Stoskopf, the author of the Coelenterates chapter of Greg Lewbart's new Invert Medicine Text (and first clinical invert medicine book as far as I know) (http://store.blackwell-professional.com/0813818443.html). From what I gather, he has had some consultations regarding "red bugs," and in those situations, he offered up a number of treatment options, interceptor being one of them. It seems that this was around the same time as it started to find its way on the various boards...

He didn't include it in the text, as I gather, because to his knowledge, "red bugs" are still not identified and ultimately their actual affects on Acropora spp. are also unknown. Furthermore, everything is still anecdotal to my (and his) knowledge at this point. So, lets just say that he isn't surprised that it works, but definitely was surprised hobbiests actually treated their systems with it.

The primary focus with the corals was the various "diseases" associated with bleaching. At the end of the day, he is of the opinion that RTN, White band disease, black band disease, coral plague, *insert bleaching event here* are more a symptom than a disease (seems pretty obvious, no?). He compared it to just a generalized septicemia in mammals...

All in all, it seems the various trends that make up the message boards are lost in the DVM profession. They don't have time to keep up with literature other than what one finds in "legitimate" peer-reviewed journals and even then, the demand for coral medicine is not exactly there outside of museums/aquariums. Everything is trial and error, and there aren't even any standards to be found for various diagnostic parameters (the same goes even for fish outside of the commercially important ones). So, I guess at the end of the day, the hobbiests are the guinea pigs, because funding for such research is few and far between...

Sorry to hijaack...

Take er easy
Scott T.
 

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