Water Changes

[Krish]

On the subject of water changes has anyone automated theirs? I plan on trying to do it with my Apex controller later this year.

Something is telling me Don (DonW) had one of his setup's automated, but not 100% sure. I do however remember hearing a few people here in the past talk about their water changes were automated. It's a real good idea if all you need is a water change to replenish things and not really to get in there and actually siphon certain problem areas.

 

[jill]

Thanks for this krish - you hit the nail on the head for why I test. I have only had my 325 reef tank for 2 years and have been slowly adding mostly Acropora - they are my favorite. I am still not sure what my calcium and mag dosing requirements are because the demand is changing as I add specimens and accomadate for new growth. I don't know if I will ever had a handle on what the dosing should be in order to keep it simple. I hope that with futher research and experience that will come but in the meantime things are looking very beautiful and growing.

As far as water changes I do 10% weekly. My nitrates have always been almost nonexistant but I want to be sure I don't lose the trace elements like Boron, Molybdenum, Strontium, Silica and Iodine as I am uneasy about dosing for any of these. I count on my salt to do that for me.

I am planning on expanding my system to include another 75 g refugium to help with the bioload and provide more "snacks" for the fish. Maybe I will find that I will relax about the water changes - we will see.

Great thread krish. Thanks.
Jill

Here's a little of an experience of mine with why I tested my water. When you add corals, they will use up so much calcium, alk etc. The more corals you add, the more the demand will come for these same trace elements to be supplied to the tank. We try to shoot for NSW (atleast I do) because in actuality, we are trying to replicate nature as best we can. So, on the testing, if you don't test for these things and don't have automated dosers, then how will you know if adjustments need to be made in your calcium dosing or alk to keep that proper balance? In my case, I used 2 part B-Ionic to dose. I would end up with an empty bottle of one of them and would still have half a bottle of the other (can't remember which was which). Added more corals, tested my water a few days after and realized I needed to increase some of my doseages to compensate for the increase of calcium and alk uptake. If left alone to run it's course without testing (when dosing or not dosing), at some point I'd imagine that alk, calcium and mag for eg will be all out of whack. Just my opinion though...

As for my thoughts on water changes, I like to do them weekly (10-15%) and the reason why I do it religiously this way is because I have OCD and feel like the more I clean to remove waste, the better my tank will be. I can have this all wrong and could be causing more harm than good but works for me. Don't allow the waste to remain in the tank then no excess nutrients to worry about.

Just my experience though and my 2 cents on it. Keep the feedback coming.

 

[jill]

Oh, the other thing is that the type of salt mix is very important to me. I use DD salt because it is true salt from the red sea so I figure it has all the stuff my reef needs. Seems to be working better than the Tropic Marin I used to use.

 

[akunochi]

Where are you getting true salt from the Red Sea? That's a very high content salt isn't it?

 

[Faciosity]

I try to do about 10% change every 3-4 weeks mainly to replace trace elements, but it's probably been 6+ weeks since the last one. I have an underrated skimmer, no ro unit, no dosing, and have only tested for things like calcium, magnesium and alkalinity once in the last 2 years. I have well over 100 species of coral (about half and half SPS and LPS with a few softies), one hell of a CUC and 25 different fish in my system which holds a total of 210 gallons. Topping off about 5 gallons per day with conditioned tap water adds certain ellements (yes I know it adds bad stuff too), and I can definately tell by looking at my corals when it's time for a change. I plan on doing about 20% in the next couple days since it's been so long since the last one.

 

[jill]

Where are you getting true salt from the Red Sea? That's a very high content salt isn't it?

I order 25 buckets at a time from Marine Depot. Here is the link D-D H2Ocean Magnesium Pro PLUS Salt Mix

Here's the description :


D-D H2Ocean Magnesium Pro PLUS Salt Mix 23.3kg Bucket Information

Product Manuals & Documentation




H2Ocean Pro+ is a new pro formula aquarium salt - produced by a solar evaporative process which produces a totally natural base salt where all of the main and trace elements are in complete balance as nature intended.

The pure natural salt is then specially enhanced for aquarium use by elevating specific elements that over time become depleted, such as calcium and magnesium which are used by corals and coralline algae for growth.

Free from Nitrate and Phosphate.

CHEMISTRY
The formulation for H2Ocean+ salt has been developed by D-D following many months of testing and evaluation. The salt is designed to dissolve quickly and easily and to have a specific chemistry which in our opinion is the optimum formulation to maintain a healthy reef and allow regular water changes whilst maintaining a natural balance.

Calcium and Magnesium levels are boosted to replace that used up through coral growth within the aquarium whereas chloride levels are slightly lowered to allow post additions of calcium and magnesium chloride with a minimized affect on the chloride balance.

Parameters when mixed to a S.G: of 1.025 @ 25°C = 35.5 ppt




Parameters

Level

Range

Units



pH

8.3

8.2-8.4





dKH

9.3

8.7-9.8





Calcium (Ca2+)

440

430-460

mg/l



Magnesium (Mg2+)

1340

1300-1380

mg/l



Chloride (Cl-)

19550

19960-20130

mg/l



Potassium (K+)

410

380-420

mg/l

 

[WABlonde]

We haven't changed the water in months. Maybe we should look into it.

 

[Krish]

We haven't changed the water in months. Maybe we should look into it.

Where the heck have you been missy!!! . If it ain't broke don't fix it? How's the tank going?


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[Paul B]

I always get myself into trouble on these water change threads :crazy:
My reef is sort of old and I change about 20% of the water 5 or 6 times a year. About a quarter of that is NSW only because it is heavy and I am old or I would never use ASW.
I don't have any test kits so I have no Idea what the readings are for the NSW around NY where I collect.
My water was however tested by a commercial lab in 2009. They did it for free because at the time they were interested in testing 38 year old tank water.
I published the results but in short the nitrates were 5, phosphates 0.2, silicate 0.5, alkinity total 11.462
alkinity carbonate 9.225, iodide 0.002, calcium 516 and copper 0.05 (which is high)

I have all of the rest of the readings but in my mind being the fish are spawning, the LPS are thriving and the SPS is growing, it really doesn't matter what the readings are.
I only dose home made 2 part calcium and a couple of times a year I add Epsom Salt.
I also add some Lugols Iodine when I remember 5 drops once or twice a week but I doubt I need that. My tank tests zero for Iodine and low for Iodide so I figure, what the heck.

I know some people change water every week, some every day, but did you ever see a good looking tank with all new ASW?
I didn't think so. It makes you wonder doesn't it?
Are new tanks healthy with all new water? Do fish spawn in new water? Do we have algae and cyano blooms in new tanks? I wonder why.

I also believe that if you ned to change water because your nitrates are elevated, there is something wrong with your system. Your bacteria are supposed to do that for us for free and if they are not doing their job, well then, it's a problem.
I add some bacteria from the sea a few times a year but I don't really know if that has anything to do with it. I also run a reverse UG filter (OK stop laughing) and I am sure no one would think that would have anything to do with it. Many of my fish are spawning so I over feed and I use mostly natural foods from the sea like fresh clams but of course if anything that would add to the nitrates.

So I guess like everything else in this hobby, there is no answer because the answer is hidden away in all the variations of systems and animals we keep.
You can't do what I do in your house and I can't do what you do.
My tank is very different because it evolved way before the internet and was not just set up as is from a set of instructions now presented to us as the correct way to do it.
So good luck with however you change your water. It's all right and all wrong. :twitch:

 

[akunochi]

ALL HAIL PAULB! LOL.

Just kidding Paul, I am always very interested to get you input from all your years of reef keeping and your success cannot be argued.

On a side not...Krish...Paul B doesn't test either LOL. +1

 

[WABlonde]

Where the heck have you been missy!!! . If it ain't broke don't fix it? How's the tank going?


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Tank is fine other than a little hairy. My clowns have both finally discovered the anemones and each have their own now. Since we put the filefish in, I no longer see my sand sifting baby snails or the big one. I miss my babies. We set up a 55 hex for my birthday. It has bleached out corals for aquascaping and holds a niger trigger, bi-color fox face and a dragon wrasse. They make for an interesting team and are all such hams. Loving the tank though - it's so quiet. Makes me want to look into something else for the 75. The skimmer is just loud on it. Took down the QT which means NO NEW FISH and NO MORE SPENDING MONEY!

 

[Krish]

On a side not...Krish...Paul B doesn't test either LOL. +1

Lol! So what does that mean? That you don't have to test because his tank is 38+ years old lol? Do you think it was 38 years of smooth sailing and never any problems? What about algae? Paul likes algae and thinks it's a natural look so he allows it to grow. Nitrates and phosphates aren't really an issue. As he put it, he doesn't like the look of sterile tanks. For me, I hate algae. A tank of mine with algae is a failure for me because it's not what I shoot for. I gave up the hobby and went back to freshwater after algae beat me up when first getting into the hobby and it wasn't until a year later that I gave it another shot. So it is all in what you are after and shooting for. I can set up a tank and run it for 38 years changing the water every week and testing every week so I can dose the tank to keep levels where I want them. That's not hard. It will just take a long time to prove :lol:. DonW was the person I mentioned that did a 100% water change each week on his tank (110 gal I think) using ASF and had a beautiful reef tank so testing, water changes, dosing or whatever is all up to what works for each individuals setup and what they are shooting for. You can have the exact same setup as me (corals, fish, equipment and all. Even same maintenance routine ) and your tank could crash and mine could flourish. Every tank is different and no one set way to do things so the +1 to Paul not testing doesn't mean diddly


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[Krish]

I know some people change water every week, some every day, but did you ever see a good looking tank with all new ASW?
I didn't think so. It makes you wonder doesn't it?
Are new tanks healthy with all new water? Do fish spawn in new water? Do we have algae and cyano blooms in new tanks? I wonder why.

For me this doesn't carry much weight. I have seen a good looking tank with all ASF. I have seen many. Water itself doesn't add much biological properties which is why you can do a 100%water change on a tank and once temp, salinity and other parameters match up, it will not affect anything. Not much beneficial free floating bacteria in water to shock a system if you did a 100% water change. I always took advantage of doing it in a tank swap. Get rid of that old crappy water is my thoughts. Beneficial bacteria is found mostly in the liverock or sand bed not water column. Also a new tank is not mature so you can't compare them. They aren't healthy or stable but rather just starting out trying to find it's balance. Die-off usually occurs and new bacterial colonies have to build up so in otherwards, it has to go through the cycling process and find it's balance. Along the way you encounter cyno and these things because they are newly setup tanks and not mature systems. Common guys...


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[akunochi]

Lol! So what does that mean? That you don't have to test because his tank is 38+ years old lol? Do you think it was 38 years of smooth sailing and never any problems? What about algae? Paul likes algae and thinks it's a natural look so he allows it to grow. Nitrates and phosphates aren't really an issue. As he put it, he doesn't like the look of sterile tanks. For me, I hate algae. A tank of mine with algae is a failure for me because it's not what I shoot for. I gave up the hobby and went back to freshwater after algae beat me up when first getting into the hobby and it wasn't until a year later that I gave it another shot. So it is all in what you are after and shooting for. I can set up a tank and run it for 38 years changing the water every week and testing every week so I can dose the tank to keep levels where I want them. That's not hard. It will just take a long time to prove :lol:. DonW was the person I mentioned that did a 100% water change each week on his tank (110 gal I think) using ASF and had a beautiful reef tank so testing, water changes, dosing or whatever is all up to what works for each individuals setup and what they are shooting for. You can have the exact same setup as me (corals, fish, equipment and all. Even same maintenance routine ) and your tank could crash and mine could flourish. Every tank is different and no one set way to do things so the +1 to Paul not testing doesn't mean diddly


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2 words krish.......


Prove it! I'll see you in 38 years. LOL :spy:

 

[Krish]

Lol! I'll probably be dead by then. :lol: I commend Paul for his accomplishments, but it was a learning experience for him as well. He mentioned back in the 70's they bleached everything in their tanks if I remember correctly and I'm sure today he doesn't do that. His setup is unlike anyone else's as well. Mostly everything from his area he has in his tank sort of like my tanks. Specific to the area and not all mixed up. No discredit to Paul he has achieved an amazing accomplishment, but anyone wanting to stick with it I'd imagine can keep a tank for 38 years or more. It's just how long do you want to stick it out? Many people get bored or tired of it so they drop the hobby for a bit or keep changing over to a different tank so I think it's more of an endurance thing. I'm sure Paul had many setbacks and wasn't all smooth sailing, but he stuck with it and pressed on.


Anyways just a few more personal thoughts. I will continue to test, dose and do my water changes because it suits Krish best.



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[mojoreef]

Paul I thought it would be cool to let folks take a peek at your tank

 

[dnjan]

So back to water changes? Who else does them and why (for or against)?

I do water changes as a side-effect of siphoning detritus off the sandbed. About 5-10%, whenever I feel guilty.
(Urchin pellets are huge and dense!)

 

[Krish]

I do water changes as a side-effect of siphoning detritus off the sandbed. About 5-10%, whenever I feel guilty.
(Urchin pellets are huge and dense!)

Well look what the cat drug in!! :lol: How's it going Don?? Good to see you here.

Paul I thought it would be cool to let folks take a peek at your tank

View attachment 42066

So which decade was this picture taken from LOL! See this is an example of the point I was making. It's all what you like. This setup is what works for Paul and makes Paul happy and that's what it is most important here...What makes you happy and what works for you. Obviously this is a nutrient rich tank because of the algae growth (unless in was manually added in there). This could not work for me because I don't like any algae so I could not follow in Paul's footsteps. I'd have to find the source of my nitrate problem and fix it which may include more frequent water changes and tank maintenance to export waste, less feeding (as he mentioned he over feeds), maybe more flow and better skimming etc. So I guess it is safe to say that Paul knows he has an issue in his tank because of this statement.

...I published the results but in short the nitrates were 5, phosphates 0.2, silicate 0.5...

I also believe that if you ned to change water because your nitrates are elevated, there is something wrong with your system. Your bacteria are supposed to do that for us for free and if they are not doing their job, well then, it's a problem.

So in a nut shell it's all what floats your boat. I think for me, it will always be weekly water changes. Just my way of doing things. I prefer to rely on water changes along with good flow, skimming, sufficient liverock etc than just to rely on one thing because if it fails, atleast you have some other things in place to take up the slack. Our tanks don't have the volume of water the ocean has to replenish it so IMO, we have to do it in some sort of way whetherit is by water changes or dosing.

 

[akunochi]

You have to admit though his tank does look pretty natural to what you might see on a reef...minus the bottles.

 

[dnjan]

Well look what the cat drug in!! :lol: How's it going Don?? Good to see you here.

Keeping busy.
When my son went off to college, the time I dedicated to reef-stuff decreased a bit, and was replaced by time spent on beer-related stuff.
who wudda thought !

Probably haven't fed my tank since the last time I was posting regularly. Have changed the water once or twice though ...