What's wrong with this?

[badger126]

Looking for some help! My parents have a 210 gallon tank and for some reason they can't keep any sps coral alive. I personally have no problem keeping SPS but I don't know what is wrong with their tank! they are running 3x 250 watt metal halides with practically new phoenix 14k bulbs. Their actinics are on a 12 hour cycle and their MH are on a 10 hr cycle.
Here's their parameters:
Temp 76-78
SG 1.025
pH 8.3
nitrate 5
alk 3.7 meq/l
Ca 550
Mg 1500
phos <0.1

I realize that their cal and mag are a little high, but other than that anyone have any ideas? We've been using frags of birdsnest from my tank as canaries - we put them in and they last 2-4 weeks before showing they start showing skeleton. Thanks for any ideas you may have!

 

[returnofsid]

If you don't mind, I'd like to move this thread to Kevin's SPS forum. He's our resident SPS Guru and will be able to give you the best advice. I'll leave the thread alone, unless you give me the "go ahead" to move it.

 

[badger126]

Go ahead! I wasn't sure where to put it. Thanks

 

[returnofsid]

Moved! Kevin will chime in, when he's able.

In the meantime, is it possible that one or more of the test kits could be faulty? Have you tested the parameters, with an alternate test kit, to check against? What your describing, in my experience, points to low alkalinity. Another possibility, in my experience, would be too little flow.

 

[badger126]

Thanks for the input Sid! They are running 2 mp40 es, so I don't think it's a flow problem. Alk was my first guess as well but over the last month on our last test they have been dosing regularly. I will double check with my tests though.

 

[returnofsid]

2 MP40s would definitely be providing enough flow! lol

Could they be using a faulty hydrometer or refractometer and salinity is off?

Not sure why I failed to ask this earlier, but what fish/inverts are in the tank?

Is there any way that the tank could have ever had copper medications in it, in the past?

 

[badger126]

Let me remember - they have 2 sailfin tangs, one orangeshoulder, and one powderblue tang. They have a dwarf flame angel and a coral beauty angel, mandarin goby, some chromis, 2 false percula clowns, one clarkii clown, 2 bengaii cardinals, and a diamond sleeper goby. I don't know if they have recently, but they calibrated their refractometer like 9 months ago - the tank is a year old. No new fish have been added in the past 3 or 4 months.

They have never used any medications in this tank - is there another way for them to get introduced?

 

[07FocusST]

I am no SPS expert but right off the bat Nitrates need to be 0ppm. You CA & Mg are fine but Alk needs to be around 11-12dKH at the current CA&Mg listed to balance them out. Also check Potassium. That was a big problem for me. Also, I just recently started Brightwell Aquatics NeoZeo in my reactor. Huge difference now since I started using NeoZeo. Lots of Polyp extension on my Acro and Birds Nest.

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,
Being that they go for 2-4 weeks before they start to recede It is unlikely that there is something in the water quality far out of whack. I would look to a fish that may be nipping at it. Try a Montipora sp. as they are less likely to be nipped and are more tolerant. I prefer the alkalinity to be 2.8 - 3.2 meq/L (8-9 dKH).

Regards,
Kevin

 

[badger126]

Thanks for the response Kevin! So my next question is what are the signs of predation? They have 2 dwarf angels and it has been suggested on reefcentral as well that this might be the problem. My mother, however, is unwilling to accept that they might be the problem because "they don't swim in that area of the tank." When the birdsnest dies it goes white at the ends and the deadness slowly creeps up the branches. Is this indicative of them nipping?

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,

So my next question is what are the signs of predation?

Coral tissue is missing from areas that can be reached by the predator. Most coral predators slowly consume the coral in a few days or weeks. Fish will pick at the tops first as they are the easiest areas to reach. A simple test is to place a basket (like an old strawberry basket) over the coral and see if it still recedes.

Bleaching from the top down can be a sign of too much light and/or UV exposure. Place the coral in a shaded area and see if the tissue loss stops. Too strong of water flow continuously applied to the coral can also cause tissue loss.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Somethings Fishy]

is it only sps that your having issues with?

 

[Russter]

recalibrate refractormeter with 35 ppt calibration solution. You should be doing this frequently because they can easily come out of calibration.

 

[mcoomer]

How long is their tank? The reason I ask is that I have a 6' 180G, had two MP40's on it, and felt like I didn't have enough flow. I now have 3 tunze 6105's in the front and one MP40 blowing along the back of the tank. What mode do they have their pumps running in? With two I'd look at putting them in Lagoon Mode, synchronous operation. Reef Crest is another option but I like Lagoon Mode because it keeps the pumps at higher RPM for longer periods of time. Putting them in synchronous mode keeps them both running at high RPM, otherwise you'll have one pump that is basically at idle.

What are your parents dosing, how much, and how often? I'd like to see your calcium 100 ppm lower and your mag 200 ppm lower. pH is good but I've seen a lot of successful reef tanks have pH that is closer to 8.0 than 8.2. My own tank tends to run 7.9 to 8.0 on average. With all your numbers on the high side I wonder if too much dosing is going on. Are they using pumps on a timer or manually adding products? Let us know about their dosing habits...mmmm, for the tank that is. If mom and dad knock off a bottle of wine over the weekend it probably won't affect the corals. :eyebrows:

Nitrates are a bit higher than I'd like to see. What sort of water changes does the tank get? Any media reactors in place? Protein skimmer set to skim wet or dry? How much are they feeding? If I were trying to get that number down I'd up the water changes a bit and set the skimmer to pull a wetter skimmate. You may want to look at your feeding cycle and adjust that to cut back what you're putting in the tank. I'm assuming too that they're using RODI for water.

Finally, I'd look at cutting back the lighting cycle. 10 hours of metal halides is a lot of light. Personally, I run my actinics from 10:00AM to 10:00PM and the MH from 2:00PM to 9:00PM. I like to run them later in the day because that's when I'm around to look in the tank. I think that 6 or 7 hours is plenty of light in the tank. Plus, I like knowing that the meter isn't spinning like a top if it doesn't need to be. My corals are growing well and I've been running the same schedule since I started keeping SPS.

Hope I've said something that helps.

Mike

 

[user 26995]

Hey Badger126. I was just wondering if this problem has been solved and if so, what you found to possibly be the reason they were having trouble with sps.
Hope you can update us.

 

[pandora32]

I am curious to know also. I can barely keep my birdsnest alive!