I think the new rule is extremely stupid. I joined this site years ago for one reason. I was getting into the hobby and I wanted to be able to pick stuff up at a reasonable price. I am not one to post a lot and even though I have been a member many years and read a lot of posts I am still far from 50 so now I cannot even look at the for sale page. And if it had been this way when I joined I would not have even gotten into the hobby. Really, wasn't there a better way to deal with somebody joining just to sell. And is that so bad anyway. Hey, I like to see what they have and I would rather get it here than Ebay.
Why the new rules??
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almetcalf, this isn't a new rule. This rule took effect almost a year ago and you're just noticing? Hmmmm
The fact that you cannot see the Classified Forums isn't the new rule. It's just a way to enforce an existing rule.
This is no different than almost all forums on the internet. Actually, it is different. Most forums have a 90 day/50 post count requirement. Here, we're only required to be a member for 30 days. In that 30 days, if a member makes 1.5 posts per day, they'll meet the 50 post count requirement, by the time they meet their 30 days of membership.
Obviously, when you joined this site "years ago for one reason," you joined for the wrong reason. This site has never been intended to be used, strictly as a buying/selling forum. The classified forums are a "fringe benefit," for contributing members. 4 posts per year, doesn't meet the definition of a contributing member.
Please, we welcome you to contribute to Reef Frontiers!!
The fact that you cannot see the Classified Forums isn't the new rule. It's just a way to enforce an existing rule.
This is no different than almost all forums on the internet. Actually, it is different. Most forums have a 90 day/50 post count requirement. Here, we're only required to be a member for 30 days. In that 30 days, if a member makes 1.5 posts per day, they'll meet the 50 post count requirement, by the time they meet their 30 days of membership.
almetcalf said:
Obviously, when you joined this site "years ago for one reason," you joined for the wrong reason. This site has never been intended to be used, strictly as a buying/selling forum. The classified forums are a "fringe benefit," for contributing members. 4 posts per year, doesn't meet the definition of a contributing member.
Please, we welcome you to contribute to Reef Frontiers!!
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johnpeezy
Banned
Oh noes the threadz iz alive again, sombody grabz the horse stick and beat it to death now!!!
Actually, I bought my first corals on the for sale section from luisse25......so I kind of feel your pain. BUT, its a double edged sword if I WAS responsible and knew enough back then I wouldn't have bought it. Due to crushed coral in the bottom of my tank I think its leading to algae issues, something that could have been avoided if I hadn't been tempted by those acurrsed good deals. the devil I say.......
Actually, I bought my first corals on the for sale section from luisse25......so I kind of feel your pain. BUT, its a double edged sword if I WAS responsible and knew enough back then I wouldn't have bought it. Due to crushed coral in the bottom of my tank I think its leading to algae issues, something that could have been avoided if I hadn't been tempted by those acurrsed good deals. the devil I say.......
Chingon
Stay Thirsty!!!
The rules are there, they always change. Good deals bad deals, no one ever forced anybody to buy or sell to another member. Why complain for something you bought a while a go. i believe we all are old enough here to understand what's going on. We got sponsors that give great deals and some that never post anything, there's plenty of tanks to share all the corals. Rules are Rules, either you adapt or you move on, and its all cool as long as The Rules go for everyone and not individuals.
But mostly enjoy the Hobby. Support your local Store and if you buy from your fellow reefer dont complain unless he/she dragged you by the ear and took your wallet out of your pocket. Enough Said.
But mostly enjoy the Hobby. Support your local Store and if you buy from your fellow reefer dont complain unless he/she dragged you by the ear and took your wallet out of your pocket. Enough Said.
dieden
Exocoetidae
well said to both johnpeezy and Chingon... and I think it is great that rules keep this place from being a "Craigslist"
Chingon
Stay Thirsty!!!
Oh yeah i forgot to say, when we first start the hobby we dont know jack about prices and its like "you want what for that little thing"
we help people along the way and as you mature as a reefer you learn to let the money go, not that we are cheap, is just that at first we dont know what we are paying for, and yeah, i say thanks to the people that helped me when i started. and thanks to the LFS for those sales.
we help people along the way and as you mature as a reefer you learn to let the money go, not that we are cheap, is just that at first we dont know what we are paying for, and yeah, i say thanks to the people that helped me when i started. and thanks to the LFS for those sales.
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Ichthys
Well-known member
alive again
Really? is November 1st National ROT Night? (Ressurect Old Threads). There have to be 4 or 5 threads on the main page that have been ressurected from the vault...
Really? is November 1st National ROT Night? (Ressurect Old Threads). There have to be 4 or 5 threads on the main page that have been ressurected from the vault...
luisse25
Well-known member
i bought my first corals 2nd corals 3rd corals a bunch of corals to a bunch of people from here..even on the local fish store,good deals,FREEBIES,expensive ones ITS FUN,some gave me flatworms some gave me algaes but i never point out name and i never complained..it just gave me more knowledge and i learned from it...who doesnt???
i dont know any before when i started,a lot of good reefer here gave me so much help...so many generous people when i was starting and i learned to pass it on...
i also thought aiptasias were corals it was funny
TO YOU JOHN I DONT KNOW WHAT PROBLEM I CAUSED U,BUT PROBABLY THAT TIME WHEN U ACQUIRED A CORAL FROM ME,I AM STILL LEARNING...(i dont even remember what u got from me...)
SORRY IF I TRIED TO BE GENEROUS AND PASSED U A GOOD DEAL WHEN U WERE STARTING.
AND I AM VERY HAPPY FROM WHAT MY TANK HAVE BECOME NOW...BECAUSE OF THE HELP OF REEF FRONTIERS...AND THE NEW RULES IS GOOD FOR EVERYONE.
Chingon
Stay Thirsty!!!
johnpeezy
Banned
i bought my first corals 2nd corals 3rd corals a bunch of corals to a bunch of people from here..even on the local fish store,good deals,FREEBIES,expensive ones ITS FUN,some gave me flatworms some gave me algaes but i never point out name and i never complained..it just gave me more knowledge and i learned from it...who doesnt???
i dont know any before when i started,a lot of good reefer here gave me so much help...so many generous people when i was starting and i learned to pass it on...
i also thought aiptasias were corals it was funny
TO YOU JOHN I DONT KNOW WHAT PROBLEM I CAUSED U,BUT PROBABLY THAT TIME WHEN U ACQUIRED A CORAL FROM ME,I AM STILL LEARNING...(i dont even remember what u got from me...)
SORRY IF I TRIED TO BE GENEROUS AND PASSED U A GOOD DEAL WHEN U WERE STARTING.
AND I AM VERY HAPPY FROM WHAT MY TANK HAVE BECOME NOW...BECAUSE OF THE HELP OF REEF FRONTIERS...AND THE NEW RULES IS GOOD FOR EVERYONE.
I hope you didn't misunderstand my post...but you all probably did, I was being a little sarcastic. I should have waited to add corals to my tank so soon, you didn,t do anything wrong I did by not waiting. maybe if I had not seen the good deal you had from the for sale forum being closed to new members, I might of took a little longer before I stuffed corals in my tank I might have figured out crushed coral as substrate is a BAD idea before is was too late in the process to take it down.
sorry for the mix up on my post
I was not complaning about you in anyway, or atleast I wasn't trying to.
Krish
RF STAFF
This is funny...Someone who has been a member for 5 years with less than 25 posts complaining LOL!! At that rate just a little over 5 more years to go to make it to the 50 post count and you can buy or sell!
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rainydave
Chimp in Space......
Seriously...become a contributing member of the community. Ask questions, give opinions.
If you strictly want to buy/sell items, hit craigslist.
If you strictly want to buy/sell items, hit craigslist.
Maxx
Staff Housemonkey
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Messages
- 2,935
Well, there is another option...
The For Sale forums could just be closed entirely.
That has been considered before, but was shot down since Scott, some other Mods and I wanted to save the for sale forums for people who were newer to the hobby and use them as a means of getting a foot in the door and help out those getting out of the hobby...
But with all the complaints I'm beginning to see the potential upside to closing those forums permanently...
I dont like being put in a situation like this. I dont particularly like being the heavy...but I can and will do it need be.
I've been a member here since the beginning. There really arent many members here that have been here longer. So I've seen this board grow and do well. I've been here for all the growing pains and learning experiances.
I'm a police officer in real life and the father of twin 10 month old daughters. This is relevant because it means I dont have much free time and I deal with drama every day so I'm not inclined to allow a situation to foster more drama so that I and others can deal with it on our free time.
I understand that anytime there is a change, there is some hostility and some resistance. Its natural and normal. Here's the deal though...
Neither I nor any other member of the RF staff get paid for our efforts and time spent here.
This board costs money to operate.
People/Companies who pay for advertising rights are sponsors of this site.
All the money generated from the sponsors keeps the site going. Without these sponsors, the board will cease to exist.
It is free to join this website and become a member.
Sponsors have complained about members joining the board solely to sell items. There are numerous occassions where these members are discovered to actually be a business and are advertising their merchandise for sale, for free here on the board.
We as staff, really only have two choices available to us:
1...come up with something like the 30/50 rule which protects the sponsors by limiting the number of dishonest individuals who join solely to run a business without becoming paying sponsors, or get rid of the sale forums completely which also solves the problem neatly and results in less work for the site Staff.
2...allow it all to sort itself out and not work to protect the sponsors which will most likely result in all paying sponsors realizing that its cheaper to stop paying, start a new member name, and just advertise for free. This of course results in the board shutting down since it is no longer self sustaining.
This board was created by Chuck and Mike for the sole purpose of sharing and learning about reefkeeping as a hobby. There are several other sales specific boards/forums/internet options for people who only want to buy or sell reef keeping equipment. Scott, the other Mods and I all feel the same way. And while some things about the board will change, the core reason of why RF was started will not.
So you guys tell us...which do you think is preferable, going something like the 30/50 rule for new members, closing the sale forums completely, or allowing the board to close due to sponsors leaving?
Nick
The For Sale forums could just be closed entirely.
That has been considered before, but was shot down since Scott, some other Mods and I wanted to save the for sale forums for people who were newer to the hobby and use them as a means of getting a foot in the door and help out those getting out of the hobby...
But with all the complaints I'm beginning to see the potential upside to closing those forums permanently...
I dont like being put in a situation like this. I dont particularly like being the heavy...but I can and will do it need be.
I've been a member here since the beginning. There really arent many members here that have been here longer. So I've seen this board grow and do well. I've been here for all the growing pains and learning experiances.
I'm a police officer in real life and the father of twin 10 month old daughters. This is relevant because it means I dont have much free time and I deal with drama every day so I'm not inclined to allow a situation to foster more drama so that I and others can deal with it on our free time.
I understand that anytime there is a change, there is some hostility and some resistance. Its natural and normal. Here's the deal though...
Neither I nor any other member of the RF staff get paid for our efforts and time spent here.
This board costs money to operate.
People/Companies who pay for advertising rights are sponsors of this site.
All the money generated from the sponsors keeps the site going. Without these sponsors, the board will cease to exist.
It is free to join this website and become a member.
Sponsors have complained about members joining the board solely to sell items. There are numerous occassions where these members are discovered to actually be a business and are advertising their merchandise for sale, for free here on the board.
We as staff, really only have two choices available to us:
1...come up with something like the 30/50 rule which protects the sponsors by limiting the number of dishonest individuals who join solely to run a business without becoming paying sponsors, or get rid of the sale forums completely which also solves the problem neatly and results in less work for the site Staff.
2...allow it all to sort itself out and not work to protect the sponsors which will most likely result in all paying sponsors realizing that its cheaper to stop paying, start a new member name, and just advertise for free. This of course results in the board shutting down since it is no longer self sustaining.
This board was created by Chuck and Mike for the sole purpose of sharing and learning about reefkeeping as a hobby. There are several other sales specific boards/forums/internet options for people who only want to buy or sell reef keeping equipment. Scott, the other Mods and I all feel the same way. And while some things about the board will change, the core reason of why RF was started will not.
So you guys tell us...which do you think is preferable, going something like the 30/50 rule for new members, closing the sale forums completely, or allowing the board to close due to sponsors leaving?
Nick
FreakinReefin
Insert idiot comment
Honestly, I am part of another forum(not aquarium or reef related) that requires a financial donation to have access to the buy/sell forums. On top of that they have a 90/100 policy. I have no problem financially donating to the site...in fact I tried but Chuck gave my money back haha! Apparently it was no good here.(just pokin fun at Chuck)
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mfinn
Surgeonfish
The people you see here doing the complaining are the newbies that are either looking for a place to sell their stuff or looking to score some cheap corals or equipment.
I say use the 30/50 rule and maybe make that as a rule that they have to check off, in the process of registration. Like a check box.
Bring back the premium membership. That should raise a couple bucks.
I say use the 30/50 rule and maybe make that as a rule that they have to check off, in the process of registration. Like a check box.
Bring back the premium membership. That should raise a couple bucks.
Maxx
Staff Housemonkey
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Messages
- 2,935
Mfinn,
I view things this way....
the board is only as good as its membership. The members here, by and large, are fantastic giving people who cheerfully and happily help others in need whenever possible. I say this based on my time here, and what I've seen.
Chuck and Mike built a fantastic place where people can come and learn the complexities of this hobby without fear of being flamed for asking questions in order to learn. Scott and I see our job as to continue what they started.
Making the sales forums accessible only to premium members is another way to resolve the issue, but one I'm not wild about for a couple of reasons that I'm not going to get into right now. I certainly appreciate the mention.
I need to clarify something here, the board isnt in danger of going broke right now. I was just explaining why we're enforcing the rule like we are. If we let it go, we will ultimately go under.
Nick
I view things this way....
the board is only as good as its membership. The members here, by and large, are fantastic giving people who cheerfully and happily help others in need whenever possible. I say this based on my time here, and what I've seen.
Chuck and Mike built a fantastic place where people can come and learn the complexities of this hobby without fear of being flamed for asking questions in order to learn. Scott and I see our job as to continue what they started.
Making the sales forums accessible only to premium members is another way to resolve the issue, but one I'm not wild about for a couple of reasons that I'm not going to get into right now. I certainly appreciate the mention.
I need to clarify something here, the board isnt in danger of going broke right now. I was just explaining why we're enforcing the rule like we are. If we let it go, we will ultimately go under.
Nick
Scooterman
Well-known member
Nick said it!
I agree with Nick, he put it in good understanding from our point of view. Really the 30/50 is the easy part, the rules covers everything else and hasn't changed at all. We always reserved the right to make the judgment call but people don't seem to read the rules of take time to understand them. I'll post the part we changed, read it and understand it but know this, it isn't up for vote or an option, it is the forum rules and it is working they way we intended it to. So there is no argument from a user stand point, either abide by our set rules or just not be a part of the forum. My goal is to get back to Reef Discussions and reef related topics, selling is a privilege for member to member selling, trading or free type thing. The equipment or livestock would be in used condition mainly and buy as is in most cases to help a fellow reefer get something that normally is out of their price range, thus it is a trade off for later that this person may one day return the favor/help etc. This is not to make money to pay for your reef tank or anything else that produces commerce in any way period. Your 30 day and 50 post should be reasonable participation on the board, this helps establish you as a real reefer and member before you get into the selling forums, yes it was nice to just sign in and buy or sell all day long but then you take away from the main purpose of this site, this also attracts more people like that and before you know it we're reef ebay. I know many sites that went down because of this, the really good experienced reefing people ends up leaving, otherwise they would be there to help others and share reefing knowledge and have great discussions.
I agree with Nick, he put it in good understanding from our point of view. Really the 30/50 is the easy part, the rules covers everything else and hasn't changed at all. We always reserved the right to make the judgment call but people don't seem to read the rules of take time to understand them. I'll post the part we changed, read it and understand it but know this, it isn't up for vote or an option, it is the forum rules and it is working they way we intended it to. So there is no argument from a user stand point, either abide by our set rules or just not be a part of the forum. My goal is to get back to Reef Discussions and reef related topics, selling is a privilege for member to member selling, trading or free type thing. The equipment or livestock would be in used condition mainly and buy as is in most cases to help a fellow reefer get something that normally is out of their price range, thus it is a trade off for later that this person may one day return the favor/help etc. This is not to make money to pay for your reef tank or anything else that produces commerce in any way period. Your 30 day and 50 post should be reasonable participation on the board, this helps establish you as a real reefer and member before you get into the selling forums, yes it was nice to just sign in and buy or sell all day long but then you take away from the main purpose of this site, this also attracts more people like that and before you know it we're reef ebay. I know many sites that went down because of this, the really good experienced reefing people ends up leaving, otherwise they would be there to help others and share reefing knowledge and have great discussions.
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johnpeezy
Banned
- Status
